Petition to bring Neo-geo games to the gamecube

[Cynn]

This reminds me of the story of the young Samurai who used a stick as a sword. He was a poor boy who could not afford a sword. Instead of breaking his honor and stealing one, he trained with a long heavy stick for many years.

By the time he was the age of manhood he was an almost unbeatable fighter. Around this time the emperor’s Samurai were touring villages looking for new blood. They found the man and challenged him. The man fought bravely but in the end his challenger had him down and his stick slashed in two.

The Samurai whom defeated him arrogantly offered him a blade and a new round. Within seconds the man had chopped the samurai to bits.

Neo Geo artists are godly. Look how good they have become with an ancient system and extremely limited resources. Imagine for a second if we were to give them a blade. Cutting edge technology to develop on.. THAT is my point. SNK can raise the 2D bar... Maybe even save 2D from being a handheld only province.

As far as like minded IGN people, I am one. I work at IGN Mac so I don't get to give my views on Neo. I'm still pushing for a classics area on the network but no luck so far.

 

[Mark of the Wolves]

Can we get back on topic? You guys are arguing over 2 totally different things. Technology vs Technique. We know that Sammy and Capcom artists don't have technique, but they have the technology to cover it up and make it look nice. SNK uses their technique to compensate for the technology--well the lack of it--and it looks good, just not great.

Anyway Neo ports on the GC would be good but their isn't money for it so its a bad idea.

 

[FeelGood]

cute story, but unlike a stick to a sword, hardware and development tools don't translate as smoothly. Had it been the case, then the SNK ports to mainstream systems would have exceeded the Neo versions.

But they really didn't.

Cynn:
This reminds me of the story of the young Samurai who used a stick as a sword. He was a poor boy who could not afford a sword. Instead of breaking his honor and stealing one, he trained with a long heavy stick for many years.

By the time he was the age of manhood he was an almost unbeatable fighter. Around this time the emperor’s Samurai were touring villages looking for new blood. They found the man and challenged him. The man fought bravely but in the end his challenger had him down and his stick slashed in two.

The Samurai whom defeated him arrogantly offered him a blade and a new round. Within seconds the man had chopped the samurai to bits.

Neo Geo artists are godly. Look how good they have become with an ancient system and extremely limited resources. Imagine for a second if we were to give them a blade. Cutting edge technology to develop on.. THAT is my point. SNK can raise the 2D bar... Maybe even save 2D from being a handheld only province.

As far as like minded IGN people, I am one. I work at IGN Mac so I don't get to give my views on Neo. I'm still pushing for a classics area on the network but no luck so far.

 

[Lou Gojira]

Mark of the Wolves:
Can we get back on topic? You guys are arguing over 2 totally different things. Technology vs Technique. We know that Sammy and Capcom artists don't have technique, but they have the technology to cover it up and make it look nice. SNK uses their technique to compensate for the technology--well the lack of it--and it looks good, just not great.

Anyway Neo ports on the GC would be good but their isn't money for it so its a bad idea.

Very good point, and quite honestly, (Hendrix, if you're reading this), I think we oughta' let this thread get back on topic, and make some attempt at finishing this debate in General Discussion, is that cool?

But as for the games supposedly not looking great, I can't agree with that. But then, I'm not looking for anti-aliasing effects or high resolution, so maybe I could never see this point.

I personally consider myself a graphics whore, and make no bones about it. The graphics gotta look good, or I can only get so involved in a game. Like I said earlier, I've got a tiny grasp on art and love to draw (just need to stop playing on the 'net long enough to get productive again loco ) so as a result, I need to see visuals that I think are good, visuals I know will either be a challenge to create myself, or visuals I can't touch with my little bit of talent. Neo Geo graphics have always been an inspiration to me, making me look at my own art objectively and trying to get better. Plus the games are a blast. That, folks, is a winning combination in my book.

 

[roker]

to get back on topic:

I'm a big GameCube fan, but I think Neo Geo games just don't belong on the system. It's not that I wouldn't buy it (because I would in a heartbeat), but 3rd party titles are having a very hard time selling on the machine.

If you look at all the news stories and game releases, you'll see companies canceling their games (due to lackluster sales), 3rd party titles not selling well, and there are talks of Nintendo using its resources to create a new system, rather than invest in the current system, Nintendo may be quietly creating titles for their new system (speculation points to this direction due to a very, very lacking E3 by Nintendo).

Besides, I'd rather buy an Xbox or PS2 and play it online, it's something the Neo-Geo can't do.

<small>[ June 06, 2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: the roker ]</small>

 

[Cynn]

cute story, but unlike a stick to a sword, hardware and development tools don't translate as smoothly. Had it been the case, then the SNK ports to mainstream systems would have exceeded the Neo versions.
But they really didn't.

My point is not porting, my point is working with a new system in the first place. Trying to get code to run on multiple platforms is one thing. Generating new code and art for a new platform is quite another. If you port Pac Man to Xbox it's gonna look like Pac Man. Just because it's on another system does not mean it's gonna make that neo code run any better. If the port systems had more ram to work with they would have been exact ports.That's the problem with disk media. If SNK were to be working with a new system then they would not need so much ram just to make simple effects like on the Neo. Ports are just that. It's not as if the game code is totally rewritten. It's written to run and draw resources from another source. That's it.

But to be on topic, I feel porting Neo to the Cube is like playing the Sapranos on PBS. The audience is just not there.

 

[Lou Gojira]

If SNK were to be working with a new system then they would not need so much ram just to make simple effects like on the Neo.

This line is, I think, something Hendrix and I both have failed to address in those long-winded posts we've been writing.

I can't deny that SNK/Playmore would probably have, you can say, "a new world of opportunity" with more options on the hardware. I can imagine some differences being as big as, say, working in Microsoft Paint or Adobe Photo-shop. In one you simulate the effects, in the other you can have the luxury of having the effects done for you.

But can we say this would be a financially sound move? If SNK were to want to make the move to new hardware, what happens to all the hundreds of thousands of MVS cabs worldwide? Would sales of new hardware be easily digested by all the arcade operators making loot off of the cabs they have now? And what about the home system users who have supported them for years? Could it be cost effective and worth it, when apparently the existing hardware is putting food on the plates and money in the wallets?

Where I stand personally, I think the Neo Geo has as many years left for it as the programmers can handle. In other words, the hardware is only so limited to begin with, but with good programming, people will continue to buy games. And like I stated before, I personally don't care if I'm looking at "real gradients" or "simulated gradients", or what have you. As long as the games are fun and addictive, the support will be there for the existing set-up.

 

[SonGohan]

Lou Gojira:

But can we say this would be a financially sound move? If SNK were to want to make the move to new hardware, what happens to all the hundreds of thousands of MVS cabs worldwide? Would sales of new hardware be easily digested by all the arcade operators making loot off of the cabs they have now? And what about the home system users who have supported them for years? Could it be cost effective and worth it, when apparently the existing hardware is putting food on the plates and money in the wallets?

I think it would. They sort of dug themselves in a hole with staying on the current hardware. The longer they stay on it, the harder it is for them to make a feasable change. There are a lot of cabs out there, sure, and a lot of people can keep them for the sake of having a large library of games to put in them for years to come.

It's kinda like people putting out new consoles every so often. Sure, people supported the Nintendo, but when the SNES came out people didn't freak about all the old Nintendo consoles that would be left behind. It's time to evolve, and with evolution things are left behind. People will not stop playing their home systems, especially after all those years were put into making video games for it. People still play their NES/SNES systems to this day, and you could only expect a stronger alliance with their Neo if they moved on. It's not SNK anymore. SNK was the Neo Geo we've all come to know and love. If Playmore came out with something of their own, perhaps we can critique them more fairly.

If Playmore wants to be on top, they need to stay on top business-wise. The Hyper 64 was just a terrible move to try and gain mainstream appeal. How many games came out for it? They didn't even try to make use of it's full potential. If they came out with new hardware, they need to release it with the intent to support the hell out of it.

 

[JHendrix]

Cynn:

But to be on topic, I feel porting Neo to the Cube is like playing the Sapranos on PBS. The audience is just not there.

Great line, and honestly its pretty damn true.

As for new hardware, you guys seem to think about this sort of stuff from an Arcade point of view. Personally I think they should move to new hardware, but that new hardware is PS2.

Arcades are dying and near dead, Capcom jumped ship which should be a very good indication that there's hardly any money to be made there with new and expensive cabs for new games.

Much like how Capcom was right about jumping from the CPS2 to the CPS3 and eventually the Naomi and Sys 246, they're right about this. Playmore needs to start making these things just for PS2 from the ground up, theres just more money to be made from it and it is clearly the direction the market is headed in.

 

[Third World Cow.com]

Cynn:

But to be on topic, I feel porting Neo to the Cube is like playing the Sapranos on PBS. The audience is just not there.

I really don't believe that (and until somebody shows me actual evidence, like the sales of CvS2EO vs. it's XBox sales). With proper marketing (say the two in one KoF 2k1/2k offer) or the proper hook (Link in Soul Calibur II) , any game can achieve decent sales on the Cube (proof: Animal Crossing & Ikaruga), even if multiplatform (Spiderman). In any case, its potential audience is, at the very least, bigger than it's Neo Geo audience.

As for liscencing costs, they can be reduced by adding some simple (& cheap) GC/GBA connection bonuses (because Nintendo reduces liscencing fees for those who use the connectivity). For example, with SvC:Chaos you could add a feature to download the MotM minigames to the GBA, or for KoF games, you could include secret characters for downloading into the GBA KoF EX games (and since the games aren't developed by Playmore, the costs would be minimal).

BTW, I signed it yesterday, as Ian Perez.

 

[Lou Gojira]

Hey Hendrix, you never said whether or not you wanted to finish this little debate of ours in General and let this thread get back on topic. If you want to agree to disagree that's fine too. I can stay a bitter old man hung up on primitive graphics and you can stay a snot-nose that flips over filters and purty colors. wink

 

[smokey]

Fran:
thank god i did not read the first 3 pages

honestly

that was a load of shite

same old fucking thing

!

Hihi