scumbag sony

[HeartlessNinny]

I gotta say, fellas, that I don't see what the big deal is here. Those user agreements are always designed to protect the corporation at the expense of the consumer.

If you all really feel that strongly about it, you wouldn't have credit cards. And that's just to name one thing.

Do I like it? No, I don't. But I'm hardly surprised. And at the end of the day, it doesn't affect the service or how I use my PS3, so I honestly don't care.

 

[LWK]

Seriously, who gives a shit. If you're gonna sue sony, whine. If not, shut up. Its not like anyone here has the financial pull to be a remote threat to sony. By the time you even reach the courtroom, they'd have high powered lawyers melting your case to shreds.

Its not fanboyism at all. Sony isn't my friend. Its a company, a entity with billions in revenue. I'm telling you flat out, that this stuff doesn't mean shit. You think its any different for other companies? What if this happened to nintendo, are they gonna be like 'yeah, sure sue us'.
No.

People need to blame the fucking hackers for hacking originally. That is who really fucked up, and nothing can't be hacked. Sony fucked up by renigging its promises. This stuff pissed me off unbelievably, and I've written about it before. I'm in the boat where I get the mentality and just expect it. I'd have agreed to this also if it was for the 360. It doesn't effect my life in any significant way, and it doesn't matter.

 

[Taiso]

Things melt into puddles.

And get torn into shreds.

If Sony has lawyers that can melt legal arguments, wholly intangible intellectual concepts expressed through verbal communication, into shreds, I do NOT want to fuck with them.

 

[SonGohan]

Currently, I'm not going to sue Sony. However, it would be insane to give up my right to do so.

 

[complexz]

Things melt into puddles.

And get torn into shreds.

If Sony has lawyers that can melt legal arguments, wholly intangible intellectual concepts expressed through verbal communication, into shreds, I do NOT want to fuck with them.

oh shit lwgay, you just got burned solid.

 

[Taiso]

oh shit lwgay, you just got burned solid.

Bah, I'm just using lame jokes to keep the mood light. I think he knows I'm not challenging his intelligence. There are plenty of other people here that do that, anyway.

 

[SNKorSWM]

Put up with shit, and shit is all you're gonna get.

 

[LWK]

Not really, but its ignorant to think we can change anything. Corps are gonna protect themselves, thats how it goes. We by nature should hate it, and they by nature should do it. That's the weight of the world.

I don't think you can even make it legally binding even if we do agree to it. They can't change the laws with a few lawyer lines. I wanna hear Bobak's input on this to be honest. I think there is a legal limitation to these protections. Sony always pulls this stupid crap, and I HATE their EULA'S. Legally they can't hold our products out of our consumer range for any reason, no matter what we agree to. We own the product, not a license to it.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Things melt into puddles.

And get torn into shreds.

If Sony has lawyers that can melt legal arguments, wholly intangible intellectual concepts expressed through verbal communication, into shreds, I do NOT want to fuck with them.

I would advise you (and anyone else who's upset about this) to comb through your credit card agreement. You'll find that a large portion of your legal rights go away as soon as you sign it, and if you don't sign, you don't get a credit card.

It's not just cards either. Any time you go along with a user agreement document, you're pretty much giving up the right to sue. It happens to people at their jobs, too. Here's a particularly disgusting example: A few years back, a young woman took a job at Halliburton. They offered her a raise if she went to Iraq, so she asked about it. Mostly she wanted to know if there would be other women there, and what the accommodations would be like (she didn't want to be housed with just men). They assured her she'd be with other gals.

Long story short: she gets there, there are no women. She gets severely sexually harassed by some men, and starts to fear for her safety. She complains to the management, who ignore her. She is then gang raped.

Here's why I bring it up: she wanted to hold Halliburton accountable, but because she signed a statement similar to the Sony agreement, she was legally unable to sue. She couldn't do anything other than sit down with a third party mediator, but the statement dictated that Halliburton got to pick the mediator. Needless to say nothing happened to her attackers or Halliburton.

It's an extreme example, of course, but I think the principle holds true. Sadly most people don't have much choice when it comes to signing stuff like this.

 

[CafeineCake]

Currently, I'm not going to sue Sony. However, it would be insane to give up my right to do so.

My whole point!

 

[CafeineCake]

I would advise you (and anyone else who's upset about this) to comb through your credit card agreement. You'll find that a large portion of your legal rights go away as soon as you sign it, and if you don't sign, you don't get a credit card.

It's not just cards either. Any time you go along with a user agreement document, you're pretty much giving up the right to sue. It happens to people at their jobs, too. Here's a particularly disgusting example: A few years back, a young woman took a job at Halliburton. They offered her a raise if she went to Iraq, so she asked about it. Mostly she wanted to know if there would be other women there, and what the accommodations would be like (she didn't want to be housed with just men). They assured her she'd be with other gals.

Long story short: she gets there, there are no women. She gets severely sexually harassed by some men, and starts to fear for her safety. She complains to the management, who ignore her. She is then gang raped.

Here's why I bring it up: she wanted to hold Halliburton accountable, but because she signed a statement similar to the Sony agreement, she was legally unable to sue. She couldn't do anything other than sit down with a third party mediator, but the statement dictated that Halliburton got to pick the mediator. Needless to say nothing happened to her attackers or Halliburton.

It's an extreme example, of course, but I think the principle holds true. Sadly most people don't have much choice when it comes to signing stuff like this.

And the fact that no one did anything about it is just sad. And should give you an idea about a/your society that is willing to accept this.

Not all companies are bad, people should just stop taking it up the ear canal and make their money speak for them. If they fuck you, fuck their bottom line and stop taking their shit.

 

[ki_atsushi]

Currently, I'm not going to sue Sony. However, it would be insane to give up my right to do so.

This is the voice of common sense. The thread may be closed now.

 

[evil wasabi]

Seriously, who gives a shit. If you're gonna sue sony, whine. If not, shut up. Its not like anyone here has the financial pull to be a remote threat to sony. By the time you even reach the courtroom, they'd have high powered lawyers melting your case to shreds.

Its not fanboyism at all. Sony isn't my friend. Its a company, a entity with billions in revenue. I'm telling you flat out, that this stuff doesn't mean shit. You think its any different for other companies? What if this happened to nintendo, are they gonna be like 'yeah, sure sue us'.
No.

People need to blame the fucking hackers for hacking originally. That is who really fucked up, and nothing can't be hacked. Sony fucked up by renigging its promises. This stuff pissed me off unbelievably, and I've written about it before. I'm in the boat where I get the mentality and just expect it. I'd have agreed to this also if it was for the 360. It doesn't effect my life in any significant way, and it doesn't matter.

Your problem is that you don't support consumer rights as long as it doesn't affect you. As long as you're unscathed, everyone else can eat a bag of dicks.

 

[subcons]

As long as you're unscathed, everyone else can eat a bag of dicks.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

This is the voice of common sense. The thread may be closed now.

I agree it's the voice of common sense, but it isn't the voice of reality. Like I said, I don't think people realize how many of their rights they sign away on a routine basis.

I should add that this is mostly the case in the US. It's generally much harder to sue a person here in Canada, and it's not easy to sue a corporation either. But you're better off here than you are in the US, where big business has been working hard to stifle your legal rights for years, generally without anyone's knowledge.

If people are really interested in this, I highly recommend watching the documentary Hot Coffee. It's primarily about the woman who sued McDonalds because the coffee was 'too hot'. Everyone thinks that was a frivolous lawsuit, but it wasn't. The documentary then goes on to other cases, and talks about how Tort Reform has made it so you basically can't get justice from a big company, even if they, say, severely injure your child. Pretty shocking stuff. And it's much more important than this Sony nonsense.

 

[SonGohan]

OK

but this thread is about Sony

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I know, I just think it's weird that you guys are upset about this even though you've probably already done the equivalent without realizing it. If nothing else, I agree this is a dick move by Sony though. Just not surprised, like I said.

 

[SonGohan]

If you agree then why are you even arguing

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I'm not, I'm trying to point out something relevant to the discussion.

 

[SonGohan]

Making vague assumptions on what rights you think we sign away isn't really adding anything to the discussion.

Although, I'm interested in watching Hot Coffee now.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Well, I mentioned credit card agreements. If you've signed one, and if you have a card, then you did — if you signed one, it's extremely difficult for you to sue, say, Visa. I don't think that's vague. Since this thread is about how Sony is making us do something similar and it's making everyone mad, I thought it was pretty relevant... But what the hell do I know.

Anyways, watch Hot Coffee if you get a chance. It's pretty interesting (and infuriating if you live in the US). The woman from Halliburton I mentioned is covered in it, too. The whole doc is pretty much about what we're talking about here, just on a bigger scale.

 

[ki_atsushi]

Well, I mentioned credit card agreements. If you've signed one, and if you have a card, then you did — if you signed one, it's extremely difficult for you to sue, say, Visa. I don't think that's vague. Since this thread is about how Sony is making us do something similar and it's making everyone mad, I thought it was pretty relevant... But what the hell do I know.

Anyways, watch Hot Coffee if you get a chance. It's pretty interesting (and infuriating if you live in the US). The woman from Halliburton I mentioned is covered in it, too. The whole doc is pretty much about what we're talking about here, just on a bigger scale.

Yeah, but Visa (and other credit card companies) haven't been criminally negligent (and assholish on top of that) like Sony has. They actually do have a process that it's customers can go through to recoup losses from things like identity fraud/credit card fraud.

Basically, Sony says "I'm stupid, I don't care, fuck you. And now you can't sue me for it."

 

[Orpheus]

From the article:

"Gamers/users will now have to try to resolve any legal issues with an arbitrator picked by Sony, before being able to file a lawsuit."

Luckily, this seems to not be a completely black and white arbitration attempt as there is a "loophole" of sorts (thankfully, benefitting the customer in this case) that will allow you to opt out but you must handle it manually by mailing Sony requesting to do so.

Even without opting out and being binded it appears that you can attempt to sue Sony but only after going through the paces of an arbitration that is mediated by an arbitrator that is hired by Sony. The problem with this is that it is in the best interest of the hired arbitrator to find the case in favor of their employer as arbitrators who oporate and judge as they are suppossed to (fairly and without bias) usually get black balled/black listed from the industry.

MANDATORY ARBITRATION

See also: TORT REFORM

If you in any way care about your legal rights and your right to utilize the civil justice system (as a means to put you and a corporation that has hurt or wronged you on a level playing feild legally) well as those of others here in the society we live it you should do yourself a favor and "read up" on those two terms/topics. For an condensed version see the documentary "Hot Coffee". HeartlessNinny already described one of the more severe cases of the consequences of tort reform & mandatory arbitration with the Haliburton example, contained in the documentary.

Ninny also is correct when stating that anyone here who has a credit card, cell phone....hell, even a corporate job has signed into a mandatory arbitration agreement, fully waiving their rites to sue in a civil court if they were wronged, injured, etc by the company in question....................THAT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

The members here taking the "well. what can you do?/I,ME,MINE" stance on the subject (LWK, Ninny, etc) only show how self absorbed and cynical they can be. What do you exactly want, a gold medal for illustrating how much of a douchebag you can be?

Hats off to Wasabi for showing how he has matured over the years with his restraint and insight.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Yeah, but Visa (and other credit card companies) haven't been criminally negligent (and assholish on top of that) like Sony has. They actually do have a process that it's customers can go through to recoup losses from things like identity fraud/credit card fraud.

Basically, Sony says "I'm stupid, I don't care, fuck you. And now you can't sue me for it."

That's true. Still, there is plenty of injustice to be had, that's all I'm saying.

The members here taking the "well. what can you do?/I,ME,MINE" stance on the subject (LWK, Ninny, etc) only show how self absorbed and cynical they can be. What do you exactly want, a gold medal for illustrating how much of a douchebag you can be?

Hey now, I'm not that cynical and self absorbed. I just thought this thread would be a good opportunity to talk about the Tort Reform thing... I didn't expect a bunch of high fives about it or anything. Hell, anger is a pretty appropriate reaction to everything I've said. Just, uh, don't shoot the messenger, okay?

 

[Orpheus]

Hey now, I'm not that cynical and self absorbed. I just thought this thread would be a good opportunity to talk about the Tort Reform thing... I didn't expect a bunch of high fives about it or anything. Hell, anger is a pretty appropriate reaction to everything I've said. Just, uh, don't shoot the messenger, okay?

To be honest, that portion of my words was primarily directed at LWK (who has illustrated that tone & set or ideals here before). You and complex were thrown in the mix.

Believe me, i'm not one for shooting the messenger or making this a case of dividing the peasants and then having us needlessly fight each other while the yuppies watch. It is It is innocence, naivete & ignorance that opens the door for things like this (tort reform/mandatory arbitration) but the whole nonchalant, seudo cynical "what can you so" mentality is what seals the deal and makes it possible in the end.