With all due respect: Why did 72 million Americans vote to reMAGA? (A thread for healing.)
- Thread starter SML
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Already covered in options one and/or two?
I see a few guys here who come off as Trump supporters because they are social nimbyists, rejecting the notion that they might be enabling the systemic problems in America, to the point they don't want to even hear about it. Progressive ideals are not such a problem, and if someone can implement them without bothering anyone, great; unless and until the social nimbyist is forced to confront themselves and make personal changes to their attitude and behavior, at which point the problems arise, as personal accountability is completely not acceptable to them.
The way the poll is set up suggests that you think one answer will cover everyone. Certainly, stupidity covers many. Maybe a majority. But malice is in there, too. Even within stupidity, there are many completely different forms which are difficult to lump together.
Like the truly brainless/functionally-retarded along with people who treat politics like hometown sports teams, as opposed to people who are merely fools, thinking Trump would be a change from corrupt career politicians in the pocket of special interests, conveniently ignoring the well-documented fact that Trump has also always been corrupt and is effectively his own special interest anyway. Then you have all the people in rural areas who believed Trump was less likely to give away their jobs or abolish their industries and suggest they learn to code.
And with malice, you have the people trying to hold back social progress and needlessly extend the suffering of others for no reason apart from thinking a book told them to. Actually, while malicious, wouldn't that also fit under the heading of stupidity? But then you also have the malice of people who don't really actively wish harm on anyone, so much as they just think the Republican approach to government, taxes, etc., will allow them to better get ahead themselves and provide for their families. It's the malice of not wishing harm on others, but not minding one bit if harm falls on those others.
Then there is a big group of people who bridge the gap between stupidity and malice, and these guys are really fucking disheartening. The ones who will push back against something they desperately need, like the Affordable Care Act, just because the Republican Party successfully branded it with a non-white person's name.
A lot of it is just where you grow up. Some people are able to break out of that, but statistically, more aren't.
Like the truly brainless/functionally-retarded along with people who treat politics like hometown sports teams, as opposed to people who are merely fools, thinking Trump would be a change from corrupt career politicians in the pocket of special interests, conveniently ignoring the well-documented fact that Trump has also always been corrupt and is effectively his own special interest anyway. Then you have all the people in rural areas who believed Trump was less likely to give away their jobs or abolish their industries and suggest they learn to code.
And with malice, you have the people trying to hold back social progress and needlessly extend the suffering of others for no reason apart from thinking a book told them to. Actually, while malicious, wouldn't that also fit under the heading of stupidity? But then you also have the malice of people who don't really actively wish harm on anyone, so much as they just think the Republican approach to government, taxes, etc., will allow them to better get ahead themselves and provide for their families. It's the malice of not wishing harm on others, but not minding one bit if harm falls on those others.
Then there is a big group of people who bridge the gap between stupidity and malice, and these guys are really fucking disheartening. The ones who will push back against something they desperately need, like the Affordable Care Act, just because the Republican Party successfully branded it with a non-white person's name.
A lot of it is just where you grow up. Some people are able to break out of that, but statistically, more aren't.
I didn't vote but I know some people who voted for Trump solely because of Biden's long history of warmongering. Biden supported pretty much every US military action since the 80s with the one exception of the first Gulf War. But everything else Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Dubya, and Obama did he enthusiastically endorsed. Hell, he was the one who assembled that team of liars that testified to congress ahout Saddam having WMDs. From a foreign policy standpoint Biden is essentially a third term for George W. Bush.
Trump tried to start a war with Iran and luckily failed and he continued the Bush/Obama era wars and drone wars, but he didn't actually start any new wars. Which is about the only positive you can say about him.
Trump tried to start a war with Iran and luckily failed and he continued the Bush/Obama era wars and drone wars, but he didn't actually start any new wars. Which is about the only positive you can say about him.
Critique totally valid. I tried my best to keep the poll straightforward. I made the poll multiple choice to try to accommodate a spectrum of responses.
"Stupidity" could include ignorance, misinformation, information processing difficulties, etc.
e.g., the sincere belief that Trump was the "less communist" option.
"Malice," which I think should be doing better, based on years of listening to Trump supporters, could include lib-owning, accelerationism, being "pissed off," etc.
Also: "other."
You don't think lib-owning falls under stupidity? Those are the sports team fan guys. Shirtless and painted at a winter Steelers game or whatever. Wooo-hooo and whatnot. They don't usually even attempt to understand any of the issues beyond the soundbite name; they just support their team.
The "pissed off" people also fall under stupidity, imo. They're the poor, dumb animals with a vague anger they can't quite understand or articulate beyond recognizing something is unfair, if only they could identify it. I totally get why they latch onto the simplistic answers the right spoon feeds them. "It's all the fault of other people living somewhere else!" It's got to be unimaginably comforting in the same way religion can be...simple answers to a terrifyingly complex and baffling world. Unless you're thinking of a different pissed off group.
Stop with the healing meme.
Trump is a confidence man.
He convinced numerous groups to vote for him because he was personally going to deliver them what they wanted.
It was always troubling to me that they continued to support him with votes despite his outlandish behavior, which was nearly always in bad taste. And usually factually incorrect or a claim with no supporting evidence.
Trump did well to convince the American populace of Special Agent Mulder’s mantra:
“Trust No One*”
*except me.
Trump himself is a liar and convinced millions that the assumption in any conversation with any person is that they are lying and can not be trusted.
That’s a dangerous way of thinking.
He convinced numerous groups to vote for him because he was personally going to deliver them what they wanted.
It was always troubling to me that they continued to support him with votes despite his outlandish behavior, which was nearly always in bad taste. And usually factually incorrect or a claim with no supporting evidence.
Trump did well to convince the American populace of Special Agent Mulder’s mantra:
“Trust No One*”
*except me.
Trump himself is a liar and convinced millions that the assumption in any conversation with any person is that they are lying and can not be trusted.
That’s a dangerous way of thinking.
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I think that a lot of people didn't think the country was as terrible as the news or people on social media were making it out to be. The only people I know who voted for Trump (let's be real, very few people I know who they actually voted for) did so because they always vote for whoever is on the Republican line.
I mentioned this in another thread, but when I moved back to this country in 2015, I noticed that an awful lot of people around here were just plain upset that a black man was president. Nobody could tell me why, other than some variation of, "it just doesn't sit right with me." In other words, they just couldn't handle that a black man had the highest office in the land. The short answer, for that crowd, is/was racism.
The other thing that completely baffles me is all the good mormons where I am who are also chump fans. Same goes for chump fans who are adherents of any religion and who fancy themselves righteous. How do you square that? Sure, he got his conservative justices through and all that, and m'guns and anglo religions are safer than they've ever been, but look at the fuckin' guy... That photo op where they tear gassed people protesting peacefully so that chump could awkwardly hold a bible? If you happen to be religious and that doesn't freak you the fuck out, well... I don't know what to tell you. The right seems really bent on decrying identity politics recently. Is that their way of coping with the mental turmoil which following an absolute fucking clown and scoundrel like chump has caused? I wonder... How can those folks turn a blind eye to all the awful things this fuckin' joker has done and still follow him? I just can't get my head around that one.
At the beginning of this year, before anybody knew that the coronavirus was in the US, we were enrolling our older daughter in a Japanese school and were at an information session for that. In the classroom, they had portraits of all the presidents lined up. I scanned them from Washington all the way over to 45. The look on his face in that portrait said something like, "Can you hurry it up with this photo, already? I've got some used rechargeable batteries that don't hold a charge anymore that I'm going to try to sell you, so make it quick. Get ready, here's the most generally disinterested smile I can muster." I know that every president, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they happen to represent, has some skeletons in the closet. A lot of 'em are not role models, but they at least did their best to try to come off like they had the most basic understanding of how to not be complete dumbass in every possible interaction. But this guy? How can anybody point to this guy and think he's a good person to follow?
The other thing that completely baffles me is all the good mormons where I am who are also chump fans. Same goes for chump fans who are adherents of any religion and who fancy themselves righteous. How do you square that? Sure, he got his conservative justices through and all that, and m'guns and anglo religions are safer than they've ever been, but look at the fuckin' guy... That photo op where they tear gassed people protesting peacefully so that chump could awkwardly hold a bible? If you happen to be religious and that doesn't freak you the fuck out, well... I don't know what to tell you. The right seems really bent on decrying identity politics recently. Is that their way of coping with the mental turmoil which following an absolute fucking clown and scoundrel like chump has caused? I wonder... How can those folks turn a blind eye to all the awful things this fuckin' joker has done and still follow him? I just can't get my head around that one.
At the beginning of this year, before anybody knew that the coronavirus was in the US, we were enrolling our older daughter in a Japanese school and were at an information session for that. In the classroom, they had portraits of all the presidents lined up. I scanned them from Washington all the way over to 45. The look on his face in that portrait said something like, "Can you hurry it up with this photo, already? I've got some used rechargeable batteries that don't hold a charge anymore that I'm going to try to sell you, so make it quick. Get ready, here's the most generally disinterested smile I can muster." I know that every president, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they happen to represent, has some skeletons in the closet. A lot of 'em are not role models, but they at least did their best to try to come off like they had the most basic understanding of how to not be complete dumbass in every possible interaction. But this guy? How can anybody point to this guy and think he's a good person to follow?
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Authoritarianism drives people to the polls
Grievance Politics drives people to the polls
Misogyny drives people to the polls
Fear Mongering drives people to the polls
Nationalism drives people to the polls
The key is to tactfully use the above in a subtle way so that you don't:
1. turn off people some people who would otherwise vote for you.
2. enrage people so much that you drive them to the polls to stop you.
You have to finesse it just so that the masses in the middle don't quite catch on.
Last spring, donald trump realized he wasn't going to win on his record. So he went all in and drove out his vote. But in doing so, he turned off a small enough percentage of republicans, a large percentage of independents and drove out the anti-trump vote.
Grievance Politics drives people to the polls
Misogyny drives people to the polls
Fear Mongering drives people to the polls
Nationalism drives people to the polls
The key is to tactfully use the above in a subtle way so that you don't:
1. turn off people some people who would otherwise vote for you.
2. enrage people so much that you drive them to the polls to stop you.
You have to finesse it just so that the masses in the middle don't quite catch on.
Last spring, donald trump realized he wasn't going to win on his record. So he went all in and drove out his vote. But in doing so, he turned off a small enough percentage of republicans, a large percentage of independents and drove out the anti-trump vote.
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I think a lot of people voted for Trump because of traditional Republican platform: guns, god, no dead babies, small government.
All lies they’ve sold well to the people.
Triggered
I love you man.
For me he became increasingly intolerable as time went on. Maybe I have a high tolerance for bullshit. It’s probably privilege. I dunno. After George Floyd I knew I could no longer tolerate him as El Presidente.
This sounds like malice, but we've talked before and I know better.
Who cares? The 'most important election of our time' turned out to be just another boring fucking election.
The Democrats will attempt to read a mandate into their modest win and then lose seats in 2 years. Biden will be dead soon and no one is voting to reelect Harris.
Trump starts campaigning for 2024 in January and the MAGA rallies continue until morale improves.
The Democrats will attempt to read a mandate into their modest win and then lose seats in 2 years. Biden will be dead soon and no one is voting to reelect Harris.
Trump starts campaigning for 2024 in January and the MAGA rallies continue until morale improves.