Connecticut Elementary School Shooting (AKA "Gun Control Debate" thread...)

[aria]

I've only read 5-6 articles about the shootings but not once did any of them say that...and it bothers me. They keep saying something to the effect of "the Glock, Sig and Bushmaster, firearms which were purchased legally" but never the fact that the shooter stole them...it doesn't matter if they belonged to his mother, they weren't his. Therefore the shooter used stolen firearms.

And we know the mom forbade the kid from ever using her stuff... how?

 

[Lagduf]

Is how he got the arms even relevant?

 

[StevenK]

The 2nd amendment to the US is like Northern Ireland to the UK - an otherwise obvious decision that somehow is an unresolvable ball ache because of decisions made by people who knew nothing of the impact their choices would have in the unrecognisable future. I don't envy you over the pond.

Can't keep going on like this though for the sake of a hobby, play some more tennis or something instead.

 

[Karou]

people with the intent to kill don't need guns. not that it would be any harder for them to find a gun if they were any harder to obtain legally. if you had the intent how difficult would it be for you to kill a bunch of kids with lets say for instance a fork or a sharp stick?

 

[Sex Machine]

There's no real reason to have a gun especially handguns, etc for any other reason other than to possibly harm someone, and with a knife or fork someone CAN subdue the person. Good luck subduing someone with an automatic weapon.

 

[Karou]

ignored-_- unless you are in a wheel chair or a total gimp do you think you would have a hard time killing a bunch of kids/people without the use of firearms if you had somehow come to the conclusion it was the Thing To Do?

 

[Sex Machine]

Even if thats true, I don't see how making it so that you can't get a gun at any store wouldn't perhaps help. Should we make rape legal because people are going to do it anyway?

 

[Karou]

nothing against wimps or the handicapped'~' I'm sure you all could find your ways too. Settle down and don't though. Please!

 

[Karou]

Even if thats true, I don't see how making it so that you can't get a gun at any store wouldn't perhaps help. Should we make rape legal because people are going to do it anyway?

logic? consentual sex should be illegal because of rape? isn't this what you meant to say?

 

[Sex Machine]

No, your logic is "People will do it with something else...so lets keep guns around." people are going to rape anyway, lets make it by use of roofies legal too.

 

[Karou]

nope.

 

[Sex Machine]

There's no absolute reason to have handguns, automatics, mac 10s, glocks, etc. EXCEPT to do damage and kill. I don't ever want a gun, and also don't think I need to feel entitled to own one. I think they should be banned and I also wouldn't shed a tear if they were.

 

[smokehouse]

And we know the mom forbade the kid from ever using her stuff... how?

Is how he got the arms even relevant?

This. The fact was, these firearms weren't his and I'm pretty damn sure his mother would have approved his use of them. If my daughter takes my car and drives it into a mall killing 5, is that my fault for owning the car or not locking up the keys?

The 2nd amendment to the US is like Northern Ireland to the UK - an otherwise obvious decision that somehow is an unresolvable ball ache because of decisions made by people who knew nothing of the impact their choices would have in the unrecognisable future. I don't envy you over the pond.

Can't keep going on like this though for the sake of a hobby, play some more tennis or something instead.

It's hard to explain but its more than that. We Americans have a culture of violence that many foreigners simply cannot understand. we have massive gang problems, massive problems with domestic violence, massive problems with robberies...these problems have zip to do with firearms.

All you see over there is what the media reports...you rarely hear about a firearm saving someone's life...and yes, it does happen often, our vastly liberal media rarely reports it. Like my father always says, "The media doesn't report about the hundreds of thousands of flights that take off and land each day, they talk about the one that crashed."

According to this site:

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

There are 270 million civilian firearms currently in the US. 270 MILLION. That shooter had 3 on him. 3. The news didn't state "On a side note, 269,999,996 firearms stayed safely locked up and caused no problems what so ever."

Our judicial system follows (or at leas SHOULD follow) the saying of "innocent until proven guilty". It's better to let 100 guilty men walk free than to imprison 1 innocent man.

My firearms have never killed anyone...nor have the VAST majority in this country. Look up the ownership #'s for the US...its staggering. 1 person out of millions goes crazy with a gun and half the planet wants to impose laws on the very people who did not do it. What sense does this make?

There's no real reason to have a gun especially handguns, etc for any other reason other than to possibly harm someone, and with a knife or fork someone CAN subdue the person. Good luck subduing someone with an automatic weapon.

I see this all of the time and it irks me.

No real reason to whom? You? So you can't see a reason to have one therefore...well...they dont serve a purpose plain a clear huh?

Let me tell you what else has no "purpose". Excess money. 2500 calorie meals. 5600 Sq ft houses. Gas guzzling cars. Vacations. Anything more than 2 children.

See where I'm going with this.

I'm not trying to be an ass but this "purpose" argument can be skewed to anyone's personal opinion and to be frank...as much as you dont give a shit about how I feel concerning people hoarding excess millions of $$...I don't care about your views concerning some objects that spend 99% of their life locked up in a safe.

 

[Sex Machine]

And/or used to cause murder.

 

[smokehouse]

And/or used to cause murder.

I can tell you I've literally shot tens of thousands if not well in excess of 100,000 rounds in my lifetime...not a single one has been at a human being. There are constructive, vastly popular things to do with a firearm that do not include harming another living thing...hell, the fucking olympics have shooting sports...

 

[Sex Machine]

I didn't say "everyone who has a gun will commit murder!", but that's the only reason to have a glock, mac-10, automatics. Why make it any easier for someone to get one right over the counter, in his hands in a couple weeks and then go out to take a life. Yeah sure, he could do it another way, but why make it easier on him to have to do it with a weapon that can cause 20+ deaths?

 

[Lagduf]

I didn't say "everyone who has a gun will commit murder!", but that's the only reason to have a glock, mac-10, automatics. Why make it any easier for someone to get one right over the counter, in his hands in a couple weeks and then go out to take a life. Yeah sure, he could do it another way, but why make it easier on him to have to do it with a weapon that can cause 20+ deaths?

Because it currently is a constitutionally guaranteed right in the United States of America.

Until the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America is repealed then firearms are here to stay in America.

I suppose a future Supreme Court could significantly alter the scope and understanding of the 2nd Amendment but I just don't see that happening in at least the next 50 years.

-duf0

 

[Karou]

a person with the intent who is even reasonably fit could easily take the lives of 20+ children without the use of any weapon couldn't they?

 

[Sex Machine]

Well technically, it doesn't give citizens the right to arms, it gives a state militia the right to them. Back in a time government was no where near the size it was today.

 

[Lagduf]

Well technically, it doesn't give citizens the right to arms, it gives a state militia the right to them. Back in a time government was no where near the size it was today.

You are wrong. Period.

Unless the Supreme Court of the United States rules otherwise in the future the current case law regarding the 2nd Amendment is that it is an individual right to keep and bear arms.

That's a fact, Jack. You can argue otherwise, but until SCOTUS changes its mind (or the 2A gets amended) your arguments are null and void.

Please read the majority decision in District of Columbia v. Heller.

 

[Karou]

not that it would ever become impossible for a person who wanted a gun to get one (if they were banned) they could just go buy for instance a bunch of hatchets. the point pro gun for our personal amusement/self defence types are trying to convey is that guns aren't what cause these shootings to happen you cannot blame a gun for it being misused its an inanimate object and could easily be replaced with another equally devastating instrument of harm in this type of scenario.

 

[Sex Machine]

Even so, I still see no useful purpose in having guns or keeping them legal (yes I know before you say anything Lagduf.), Why make it any easier to unload on a group of people and being able to buy the tool to do over the counter.

 

[Lagduf]

The price of liberty is often hard to accept.

 

[Sex Machine]

The price of liberty is often hard to accept.

I highly doubt we're going to see a war of 1812 again in the near future either really.

 

[Lagduf]

I highly doubt we're going to see a war of 1812 again in the near future either really.

This has nothing to do with my above post.

James Madison is a badass though.