Man... This sucks... Las Vegas Concert Mass Shooting...

[bloodhokuto]

We're banning the sale of acid (pH scale rather than LSD, which is already banned I'm afraid) to under 18's in this country off the back of a spate of acid attacks where people throw this shit into people's faces.

I've seen no evidence or even mention of this being a predominantly youth crime, it's classic pointless knee jerk law making, so I can sympathise with what people are saying here.

The laws on the sale of strong acid were relaxed a few years back as a result of the government wishing to 'undo regulation'.

This went against advice given to them.

This is now an attempt to back-pedal, but nonetheless they can't even get that right, as the law regarding the sale of such substances should be re-instated rather than the piecemeal age restriction ban.

 

[smokehouse]

First off RIP to all those needlessly murdered.

Probably impossible to ban guns in the US, so perhaps they should make the ammunition prohibitively expensive?

Really don't understand why some Americans are so religiously obsessed with guns, I understand that it ties up with the constitution, but that was written up by a bunch of rich slave owners hundreds of years ago - guess they know best?

Rumor is, the ink that Jacob Shallus used to pen the Constitution came from a secret concoction consisting of ground up burned bones from Benjamin Franklins own slave stocks...ole Benny just loved burnin slaves to make that freedom ink...

 

[fake]

We're banning the sale of acid (pH scale rather than LSD, which is already banned I'm afraid) to under 18's in this country off the back of a spate of acid attacks where people throw this shit into people's faces.

I've seen no evidence or even mention of this being a predominantly youth crime, it's classic pointless knee jerk law making, so I can sympathise with what people are saying here.

Those poor teenage chemists. Shame.

 

[StevenK]

The laws on the sale of strong acid were relaxed a few years back as a result of the government wishing to 'undo regulation'.

This went against advice given to them.

This is now an attempt to back-pedal, but nonetheless they can't even get that right, as the law regarding the sale of such substances should be re-instated rather than the piecemeal age restriction ban.

The previous restriction was that someone selling it had to register annually that they were selling it. That was it, it was nothing more than admin which was removed.

 

[fake]

Not sure if this is inside info or not, but he was a former fed.

 

[Marek]

My aunt and uncle live in vegas. Their daughter, my cousin has a 17 year old daughter that was invited to the concert last minute and begged her mom to go. Her mom would not let her go.

You left wingers need to stop politicizing this, to try and make this in anyway about the president. We cant even mourn the dead before someone has to blame Trump.

Im just glad I do not have to go to a funeral this week...

God damn it, you're still here trumpfaggot?

 

[famicommander]

Not sure if this is inside info or not, but he was a former fed.

Source?

 

[FAT$TACKS]

I've pretty well stayed out of this as I've only been reading about it online. I've not watched any news or such on it, that is until today.

So while at lunch they had a news station playing stuff and I just gave up and left as I couldn't sit there and eat and listen to it.

It sickens me to no end to see how excited the news media is about this shooting. Those fuckers were crawling all over themselves so excited, looking like they were about to have an orgasm while they were getting to expound their mindless bullshit. Fuck the news media. It should have been those fuckers died.

 

[fake]

Source?

Overheard from another fed.

 

[famicommander]

Overheard from another fed.

I've seen that he delivered mail, worked for the IRS, and worked for a predecessor of Locheed Martin but nothing about him being an FBI agent or anything similar

 

[Lagduf]

Picture of POTUS dot j p g

We have a profile. Everyone watch out for rich psychopathic old white men, *especially* with backgrounds in real estate.

Absolute freedom vs. absolute control is a false dichotomy.

Please identify yourselves if you feel otherwise.

And if you want to hold on to your weapons so you can take down FEDGOV if'n you have to, come out and say it. We're adults here.

I'm not advocating a particular policy. I just don't like seeing bad arguments. It seems like people want to jump to fallacies in order to avoid discussion altogether.

I think I still want my guns because I believe in the best in humanity. I trust us to be responsible enough to not do shit like this shooter did.

It's definitely a bitter pill to swallow at times like this, particularly because I think I would still advocate for the ownership of firearms in the face of empirical evidence that their banning lead to an objectively better society. I think I'd rather see a voluntary disarmament than a government forced one.

I know one day we'll get to the Star Trek Utopia I desire.

 

[fake]

I've pretty well stayed out of this as I've only been reading about it online. I've not watched any news or such on it, that is until today.

So while at lunch they had a news station playing stuff and I just gave up and left as I couldn't sit there and eat and listen to it.

It sickens me to no end to see how excited the news media is about this shooting. Those fuckers were crawling all over themselves so excited, looking like they were about to have an orgasm while they were getting to expound their mindless bullshit. Fuck the news media. It should have been those fuckers died.

At the same time, the right wing media is going to damage control and accusing people of "politicizing" a shooting. Which I guess is what this thread has turned into. I don't understand how a gun control conversation cannot take place. Absurd. And when people say "it's too soon"... If I get killed, please try to figure out what can be changed so other people don't get killed. Fuck.

I've seen that he delivered mail, worked for the IRS, and worked for a predecessor of Locheed Martin but nothing about him being an FBI agent or anything similar

IRS. He was possibly a federal agent.

 

[evil wasabi]

I don't understand how a gun control conversation cannot take place.

I wonder if Stephen Paddock thought the same thing. Until you kill someone's family, they will stick to their views.

 

[NeoSneth]

the restriction on acid sales hurts no one, and does deter it's use. that shit is ruthless, and luckily it hasn't caught on here.

Meth was rampant in this area, and now i can't get a proper decongestant without an ID. Mild annoyance, but meth rates have gone down.

 

[Wachenroder]

My best friend works in near Vegas. He's medical staff and he said when it all went down it was the craziest shit he'd ever seen.

This honestly has to be one of the most unsettling mass shootings ive heard about. At least most of them make some kind of sense but this one i still dont understand why it happened....at all

 

[LoneSage]

And when people say "it's too soon"... If I get killed, please try to figure out what can be changed so other people don't get killed. Fuck.

I'm kinda surprised people still think there is an answer. Guns and the American psyche are so intwined that nothing less than a mini-war between gun owners and the govt will have to happen in order to take away guns. Mass shootings are just something that will continue to happen every...year.

 

[evil wasabi]

Meth was rampant in this area, and now i can't get a proper decongestant without an ID. Mild annoyance, but meth rates have gone down.

stop catching colds you filthy junky.

 

[fake]

I'm kinda surprised people still think there is an answer. Guns and the American psyche are so intwined that nothing less than a mini-war between gun owners and the govt will have to happen in order to take away guns. Mass shootings are just something that will continue to happen every...year.

Yeah, I'd say that's accurate. The only solution I can think of is slowly reducing the amount of assault weapons that enter into the market until there are none left. This would obviously take over 100 years. Obviously, the government would have to deal with gun nuts, manufacturers, retailers, NRA, and lobbyists, so it's probably impossible. I don't think we'll ever get rid of hand guns and I think that's a somewhat reasonable compromise.

 

[mjmjr25]

Removing guns is nigh impossible.

Criminals / illegal gun owners would need to believe there would be no recourse (a true amnesty) for turning in their guns. Even anonymous drop-offs wouldn't be enough for some (fear of cameras or feds hiding in wait). Sentences for having a gun after said amnesty period would have to be crushing compared to current standards that these people would treat guns like kryptonite. We're talking 20 years or something in that range for possession. 50 years for a gun related offense.

Legal gun owners would need to feel like the above worked 100% before they'd give up the means "to protect their family". They would also require some sort of buy-back program. Guns are not cheap. Most cost more than an AES game.

Then the hunters and sportsmen conversation. There is no way to appease. You can't have slow-action or long guns, or whatever else can be done to make a gun less lethal or harder to conceal. The ability to modify it to inflict this type of harm will remain. It has to be a band-aid - no hunting firearms.

Then the collector angle. There are guns that have sold for tens of thousands of dollars, they are collector items, but they still fire. They would need to be bought back and archived or destroyed.

Guns are ingrained in our military and law enforcement culture. Heck, security officers carry guns and take them home in most mid and larger cities. Even if you did all of the above, that is still a few hundred thousand guns going home with these people and it just takes one to need money, or to snap.

Our government can't handle the minor aspects of gun control - the idea of them accomplishing significant change isn't fathomable.

 

[mr_b]

The issue isn't the guns. The real conversation needs to be had around mental health and it's going to take a real ugly coming of truth to it. It's a discussion no one wants to have because we all have family or friends that suffer from mental health issues big and small. Despite the severity certain freedoms will need to be removed like legally owning firearms. Will they still be able to get a hold of them sure. Just like any one can get street and pharmaceutical drugs if you so desire.

To take away the public's right to own firearms is a huge mistake. You might want to revisit history and remember why they put the right to bear arms in the Constitution.

 

[norton9478]

There is a reason why terrorists and/or mass murderers use guns rather than bombs. Because guns are a easier to obtain and way more reliable.

Then the hunters and sportsmen conversation. There is no way to appease. You can't have slow-action or long guns, or whatever else can be done to make a gun less lethal or harder to conceal. The ability to modify it to inflict this type of harm will remain. It has to be a band-aid - no hunting firearms..

Though it is common for there to be strict regulations on magazine capacity when hunting.

 

[smokehouse]

Removing guns is nigh impossible.

Criminals / illegal gun owners would need to believe there would be no recourse (a true amnesty) for turning in their guns. Even anonymous drop-offs wouldn't be enough for some (fear of cameras or feds hiding in wait). Sentences for having a gun after said amnesty period would have to be crushing compared to current standards that these people would treat guns like kryptonite. We're talking 20 years or something in that range for possession. 50 years for a gun related offense.

Legal gun owners would need to feel like the above worked 100% before they'd give up the means "to protect their family". They would also require some sort of buy-back program. Guns are not cheap. Most cost more than an AES game.

Then the hunters and sportsmen conversation. There is no way to appease. You can't have slow-action or long guns, or whatever else can be done to make a gun less lethal or harder to conceal. The ability to modify it to inflict this type of harm will remain. It has to be a band-aid - no hunting firearms.

Then the collector angle. There are guns that have sold for tens of thousands of dollars, they are collector items, but they still fire. They would need to be bought back and archived or destroyed.

Guns are ingrained in our military and law enforcement culture. Heck, security officers carry guns and take them home in most mid and larger cities. Even if you did all of the above, that is still a few hundred thousand guns going home with these people and it just takes one to need money, or to snap.

Our government can't handle the minor aspects of gun control - the idea of them accomplishing significant change isn't fathomable.

Stiff fines, huge penalties, automatic prison sentences...doesn't work. It would also cost the US insane amounts of $$ to attempt to enforce. Just like drugs, criminals have zero interest in handing over illegal items. They knowingly keep them now, why would anything change?

Another issue is people that get caught up in the system because of stacking laws/regulations. I don't think people seem to understand how convoluted many current firearm laws really are. If you start applying auto stiff penalties to firearm violations, good people will get caught up in the mix for seemingly simple mistakes...AKA mandatory minimum sentencing and the dumpster fire it has been in the US.

 

[LoneSage]

I didn't write this

This comes down to a pretty fundamental principle that is at the very, absolute core of the American identity: The supremacy of the individual over the state. This manifests in different ways and gets interpreted in others. This is at the heart of the conservative/liberal, urban/rural, and literalist/non-literist camp of the Constitution.

The obvious ones on which there is general consensus is freedom of expression, of action and of faith so long as it doesn't inhibit another's right to the same. Others are pretty much agreed on now though they took some time to get there: equality regardless of race or gender. All of these so far are easy to reconcile in both sides of the American identity because it fits well in both.

It becomes murkier when you start including tougher concepts like "public good" and individual responsibility. Who is entrusted with ensuring the public good? Is it the collection of individuals or the government they form? Who is responsible for the people's prosperity? Is it the government or the individual? Healthcare, Education and in this instance, security/gun ownership is at the heart of who is responsible for their own welfare. To the left, its easier to give that responsibility to the state, as its supported by a consensus (vote). To the right, this is seen as a dangerous step that can very easily lead to government that simply cannot be overcome.

Keep this principle in mind: The government serves the people, to those on the left: the vote ensures that. To those on the right: the ability to resist ensures that. Gun ownership and its defenders fall back on one principle: the government must always be afraid of its own people in order to prevent it from overstepping its bounds and infringing on the supremacy of the individual. To put it bluntly, many in America hold very close to their beliefs that Americans withhold the right to overthrow the government at any time. This was an argument at the heart of the Civil War.

So why do Americans still accept gun violence? How many more Columbines? How many Sandy Hooks, Virginia Techs, Las Vegas? How many people have to be murdered until we begin to trust our own government with what many view; as absolute power? Never, maybe. I can't in good conscience say that gun laws as they are make sense, or that who is getting them should have any access at all, but this isn't as simple as 'take the guns away'.

 

[SML]

I know one day we'll get to the Star Trek Utopia I desire.

I just want us to make it off world, 'duf.

 

[Montatez]

God damn it, you're still here trumpfaggot?

Just like you Hillary cuck.