Petition to bring Neo-geo games to the gamecube

[the_move]

JHendrix
PS2 and XBox are clearly the way to go! wink [/QB]

Another fucking mainstreamer.

PS2 gets enough support.

It´s a fucking mainstreamer system and all because of it´s name.

SONY.

I am with the Cube.
Nintendo is a veteran in Video game business, as Sega is.
Their system does not deserve to be ignored.
Further there are lots of good games on the cube.
Why should it be exluded always?
To ruin Nintendo?!

How lame!

I signed. I hope more will follow.

 

[the_move]

Orochi Iori Yagami:
I would jump on this, if it wasnt for the fact, that damn controller for cube

Well then you are not well informed.

There is a digital joypad existing for the cube, which has the shape of the good old Super NES pads.

Look here:

<img src="http://www.wolfsoft.de/cshop/images/11307_s.gif" alt=" - " />

Pic made by <a href="http://www.wolfsoft.de" target="_blank">www.wolfsoft.de</a>

I have those for playing MKDA on cube.

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: the_move ]</small>

 

[the_move]

Orochi_Flava
[They need to make a Saturn Controller adapter for every system...especially the Cube. [/QB]

There is already such a controller existing for Dreamcast and for PS / PS 2 made by ASCII.

ASCII plans to release a Gamecube Version of this controller.

Look here:


For PS2
<img src="http://www.wolfsoft.de/cshop/images/11014_s.gif" alt=" - " />

Pic made by <a href="http://www.wolfsoft.de" target="_blank">www.wolfsoft.de</a>

 

[supergoose]

the_move
[QB] <img src="http://www.wolfsoft.de/cshop/images/11307_s.gif" alt=" - " />

don't forget to mention, that those are made by HORI. quite inexpensive, too.

<a href="http://www.play-asia.com/paos-13-00a56000.html/&pop=1" target="_blank">http://www.play-asia.com/paos-13-00a56000.html/&pop=1</a>

 

[kernow]

xtoo_short20x:

the roker:

jeff bogard:
I believe they shouldn't be released in any console. Playmore should leave the capcom fans craving for this game and make them buy and mvs or aes.

That'd be a great idea, that way you'd get all the l337 boys to download the rom and never give a dollar to Playmore. That way Playmore could take what is possibly their biggest game . . . shall I say EVER! And crap it down the financial toilet to please collector's who'll hold on to the game and sell it for 5 times it's value in a few years on eBay.

Brilliance like this makes the world worth living in.

The rom for this game will be downloaded regardless.

I bet you it will break records for most downloaded
illegal file on the net.

thats.. an incredibly dumb thing to say.

 

[Robert]

Signed,
Not because I have a cube, not because I want to see neo games on this support but because the more playmore will sell game the more we will have neo games.

 

[JHendrix]

I swear you guys are nuts.

The cube has an advantage over all the other consoles because it can load faster?

I seriously doubt it. The GC pad would suck ass for this fighter especially and lets face it, they're selling this game to mainstream players of which very few like to go out and buy specialty controllers.

PS2's Dual Shock 2 is probably one of the best controllers ever made. Its perfectly suited to about 99% of all people I play against in that systems 2D fighters. Personally I can't stand the thing as my hands are too big to use the D-Pad the way it was designed: with the tip of your thumb. I use the ball of my thumb when I play fighters since its more comfortable for me. That said, if I'm not using the joysticks to play a game I'm using that ASCII pad that was posted. Get this out of everyone I know, I'm the only one who doesn't prefer the Dual Shock to that pad!

And XBox? Sure the original XBox controller's pad sucked, but the type S controller is fine for a SNK fighter since it has 4 face buttons that are laid out in a normal fashion. That and its D-Pad worked perfect for me when I played KOF96 on a friends modded XBox.

Even if it wasn't for its technical limitations (of the controller, of course the GC could handle a NG port) the GC still shouldn't get this game because one thing about it has become plainly obvious over time: 3rd party games sell like shit on the Cube.

I don't care if Nintendo is an original game company, I don't care if Sony or MS are mainstream (like thats such a fucking crime all of a sudden), Nintendo's system is being ignored by Playmore because there's a small enough market for this game anyway they need to put it on a system that it will sell on. Only Nintendo games sell on the Cube, I mean hell Resident Evil didn't sell all that well in Japan of all places on the Cube, to the point of Capcom bitching about it publically.

God, do you want to see these people just hemorage money till they die, again?

 

[Lou Gojira]

I would sign it, but two things keep coming to mind...

First and most obvious, do you think they're going to take a petition seriously? Hellfire, a petition won't even sway somebody like Shawn in a decision for this site. Do you think a big company with several figure heads and paychecks rolling in are going to gamble on something a buncha' gaming fools have to say online? I'm not casting judgement on anybody, I'm probably a more nerdy gaming fool than the average member here when it comes to video games and particularly Neo Geo and Turbo Duo. But let's face it folks, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. What makes our opinion any more convincing? Because we're a minority within a minority? I can't see it.

Secondly, Playmore could lose a good wad of cash should they try something like this. I saw a commercial the other day where if you buy a GC, you can get the new Zelda for free. How many "flagship titles" does that make for Nintendo to be giving away now? So far I've counted four. That smacks of overstock, and probably because they just aren't selling enough. I'm not gloating or talking down about the GC. Personally, I wanted to see the GC destroy the PS2 and X Box, and by God get gaming back into the hands of real game companies, and out of the hands of faceless corporations with dollar signs floating in front of their eyes. But the sad fact is, if the likes of Nintendo games like Zelda, Metroid, or Mario aren't selling like hotcakes for a Nintendo system, what are the odds of a game by Playmore rippling the water?

If anybody can quash these ideas that keep coming to mind, I'll gladly sign the petition.

 

[the_move]

Then we have to make a petition of who will all by this game for the cube, may it be additionally to their neo system or solo.

Besides Playmore will lose the money also on the PS2 coz few people will buy it on the PS2.

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: the_move ]</small>

 

[the_move]

JHendrix:
I swear you guys are nuts.

The cube has an advantage over all the other consoles because it can load faster?

I seriously doubt it. The GC pad would suck ass for this fighter especially and lets face it, they're selling this game to mainstream players of which very few like to go out and buy specialty controllers.

PS2's Dual Shock 2 is probably one of the best controllers ever made. Its perfectly suited to about 99% of all people I play against in that systems 2D fighters.

The pad problem is solved by Hori and further the PS2 Dual Shock pad is IMHO the worst when it comes playing fighting games. The digital pad is shit when it comes to diagonal actions and the analog stick somehow distract.

Saturn (Ascii) pads rule there. Though I love the Hori pad very much. It´s great.

And most mainstreamers won´t by this game one PS2 anyway, coz they prefer Tekken4 and Soul Calibur and all the 3D games.
SvC Chaos on PS2 will go down the drain.

I bet they would sell more on the cube than on the PS2. Coz you have less alternatives on the cube.

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: the_move ]</small>

 

[JHendrix]

the_move:

JHendrix:
I swear you guys are nuts.

The cube has an advantage over all the other consoles because it can load faster?

I seriously doubt it. The GC pad would suck ass for this fighter especially and lets face it, they're selling this game to mainstream players of which very few like to go out and buy specialty controllers.

PS2's Dual Shock 2 is probably one of the best controllers ever made. Its perfectly suited to about 99% of all people I play against in that systems 2D fighters.

The pad problem is solved by Hori and further the PS2 Dual Shock pad is IMHO the worst when it comes playing fighting games. The digital pad is shit when it comes to diagonal actions and the analog stick somehow distract.

Saturn (Ascii) pads rule there. Though I love the Hori pad very much. It´s great.

And most mainstreamers won´t by this game one PS2 anyway, coz they prefer Tekken4 and Soul Calibur and all the 3D games.
SvC Chaos on PS2 will go down the drain.

I bet they would sell more on the cube than on the PS2. Coz you have less alternatives on the cube.

Thats completely wrong. Buy sheer number of installed units PS2 ports will outsell their GC and XBox counter parts by the fact that there are more people who buy PS2 games.

The ports are there to make money in Japan mostly, where if its NOT on PS2 it won't be worth it.

The US its probably a safe bet to put it out on PS2 as there are enough fighter nuts out there to pick it up and lets face it if you're a fighting game freak in this generation then you own a PS2: its where all the fighters are! XBox probably comes in second because of CvS2 on Live and by the statistics: there are more XBox's out there than GC's.

If Sega can't sell its 2k series of sports games on the cube to the point where they're not making them anymore for GC then I seriously doubt that they'll make enough cash on the port of a 16bit fighting game.

 

[Mark of the Wolves]

I love the PS2's controller. Its great for every game I have played on it. It only gave me trouble when trying to do moves like Terry's Power Geyser, or Kim's Flying Pheonix Kick.

I think Playmore will do just fine releasing this on the PS2 and Xbox. After all Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Capcom vs SNK 2 sold pretty well. And Playmore has been getting ALOT of attention lately so it stands a chance of not being overlooked. And since the only fighter coming out in December to my knowledge is Dragonball Z Budoukai 2, I think Playmore is in good shape.

 

[Giby]

Signed.

 

[JC10001]

Resident Evil (a game that was released for the PSX, Saturn, PC, and had a director's cut) for the Cube sold over a million copies world wide. Yeah, thats a real bomb there.

The fact of the matter is, the reason that bad third party games don't sell on the Gamecube is because most Gamecube owners have something that most Xbox owners do not. Its called taste. There is no denying that good 3rd party games sell very well on the system. The cube's biggest third party supporters, Sega and Capcom, have been getting great sales on the system.

In the last year the only system that met Capcom's sales expectations was the cube. The Xbox and PS2 both fell short.

Sega has sold close to twice as many games on the cube as they have on Xbox.... and this is while Xbox is getting exclusives like PDO, CT3, HOD3, JSRF, SGT2002, etc, etc, etc. The gamecube has gotten far fewer games from Sega than the xbox and yet they still do better on the cube, and most of them are ports!

This tells me that GC owners appreciate good games when they are given to them while Xbox people could care less and just go out and buy what is seen as "cool".

The logic that a larger install base = more sales is flawed. It doesn't matter how many people own a system. If the vast majority of them do not like the game that you are releasing for that system then the game will not sell. Since you mentioned install bases though I'll remind you that the GCN leads the Xbox by over 1.5 million units worldwide and that the lead Xbox has in the US (which was just over a million at the start of the year) is really starting to shrink. The Gamecube outsold Xbox in the US in March and April and early indications are that it is on track to do so again in May thanks to MS tanking the 2 free game deal and Nintendo implementing its own free game deal in March. Ohh.. and theres this little game called Zelda too. Maybe you have heard of it. If things continue at this pace the Xbox lead over the GC in the US will be negligable if not non-existant. Whats MS killer app for this holiday season? Ohh.. thats right they don't have one b/c the only games people care about arent coming out until 2004. Two words... Mario Kart.

As far as SNK vs Capcom coming to the cube... I don't think I'd bother b/c of the button setup. That doesn't mean I think Playmore should ignore the system b/c I'd love to see a Metal Slug compilation released for it (MS 1,2,X,3,4, heck maybe even 5). Now THAT would sell.

 

[shade]

True the GC Controller sucks for Fighting games but the Hori pad solves that and rocks on CvS2:EO, Nintendo have recently put down the licensing costs to attract third party developers to make more games on GC,Playmore will concentrate on there Home country, Japan, in Japan the X-Box is being outsold by the PSone!!!! Untill a GC denial comes from Playmore of Japan, theres still hope for SNK on GC, you never know Capcom might ask to port it to GC,also Gamespy are handling the online aspect og gamecube so online play is a possibilitie. If a DC version happens then I'll buy that but if not I'll want a GC, I really wish I could afford an MVS.

 

[chimpmeister]

the_move:

JHendrix:
I swear you guys are nuts.

The cube has an advantage over all the other consoles because it can load faster?

I seriously doubt it. The GC pad would suck ass for this fighter especially and lets face it, they're selling this game to mainstream players of which very few like to go out and buy specialty controllers.

PS2's Dual Shock 2 is probably one of the best controllers ever made. Its perfectly suited to about 99% of all people I play against in that systems 2D fighters.

The pad problem is solved by Hori and further the PS2 Dual Shock pad is IMHO the worst when it comes playing fighting games. The digital pad is shit when it comes to diagonal actions and the analog stick somehow distract.

Saturn (Ascii) pads rule there. Though I love the Hori pad very much. It´s great.

And most mainstreamers won´t by this game one PS2 anyway, coz they prefer Tekken4 and Soul Calibur and all the 3D games.
SvC Chaos on PS2 will go down the drain.

I bet they would sell more on the cube than on the PS2. Coz you have less alternatives on the cube.

99% of gamers wont bother to buy those other pads, especially since they don't seem to be for sale in any retail stores (probably available by internet only). So that really doesn't help your argument. In the end, the PS2 (mainly) and XBox are the best way to go for Playmore, since more people are likely to buy on those systems. As Lou Gojira pointed out, when first-party games have to be given away to try to sell systems, it makes you wonder just who would want to develop for the system as a 3rd party . . . spock

 

[supergoose]

chimpmeister since more people are likely to buy on those systems.

since more people are likely to BURN on those systems.

 

[Daisuke Jigen]

Everyone is a Nintendo fan when no one else is looking.

 

[FeelGood]

yes... the considerable american audience that buys up all the 2D fighters.

Let's not sit in denial for too long boys. 2D fighting games in the US are like 3rd party controllers - 99% of gamers in the US won't buy them.

This isn't 1995 anymore. If it's not 3D, most americans won't touch it.

I won't argue that all 200 active members of this site would possibly buy a neo port (although the reality is that less than half us will), but even then, all the US purchases on the X-Box and PS2 won't warrant a US release.

Ben Herman says we may get stateside releases of playmore games? Pillow talk. I'm not sure how bad Herman's memory is, but for those of you that forgot how quickly KoF 99 started selling in the bargain bins ar $9.99 - and even less now, please know that SNK games in the US have too small an audience to ever be profitable - on any console.

And so when people say "release X game on X console" the best response is "yes, release X game on any console, be cause that way some casual gamer may actually buy it who may have not, had that game been restricted to only 1 or 2 consoles."

 

[JC10001]

As Lou Gojira pointed out, when first-party games have to be given away to try to sell systems, it makes you wonder just who would want to develop for the system as a 3rd party . . . spock

An idiotic statement on so many levels...

MS didn't give away first party games b/c the good ones are few and far between (who would buy an Xbox for crap like Blinx?) and Halo was not an option because it is rated M. If they could have, they would have.

Companies have given away games before. Nintendo did it with the Nes, Snes, and Gameboy. Sega did it with the Genesis, and Saturn. In all but the Saturn's case the increased sales lead to more games being made and more third parties signing on(lets face it by the time the Saturn came out Sega had completely destroyed its brand).

 

[Lou Gojira]

JC10001:

As Lou Gojira pointed out, when first-party games have to be given away to try to sell systems, it makes you wonder just who would want to develop for the system as a 3rd party . . . spock

An idiotic statement on so many levels...

MS didn't give away first party games b/c the good ones are few and far between (who would buy an Xbox for crap like Blinx?) and Halo was not an option because it is rated M. If they could have, they would have.

Companies have given away games before. Nintendo did it with the Nes, Snes, and Gameboy. Sega did it with the Genesis, and Saturn. In all but the Saturn's case the increased sales lead to more games being made and more third parties signing on(lets face it by the time the Saturn came out Sega had completely destroyed its brand).

Yeah, but free games switched up at this rate? The Sega Genesis started off with Altered Beast, and then went to Sonic the Hedgehog a couple years later as the pack-in. It wasn't too long ago that you had a choice between Mario Sunshine, Star Fox, and Metroid. Now Zelda is thrown into the mix? What happened? It's safe to assume that people didn't break their necks to buy GC's on that earlier offer, so Nintendo is sweetening the deal. And if Zelda was selling by the boat load, would it make sense to give away what would easily sell on it's own?

Again, I'm not bashing the GC, just stating what appears to be floundering sales, that's all. I'd be happy to be wrong, since I wish the best for Nintendo.

 

[ST-V]

I thought the SS-style ASCII controller is a bit average: the pad is a bit loose, and the buttons don't feel spot-on. Not the best, but decent.

The PSX/2 pad is a great design (small, light, feels good to hold), but like other's have said, the digital pad... It's accurate, but damn it hurts the thumb, especially with circular-type motions. And the PS2's analog buttons blow, I always find myself not giving it the right amount of pressure.

The best alternative is naturally to build your own arcade sticks or mod a controller you like (like the JP SS controller, the 6 button MD controller, or one of the Neo controllers)

 

[JHendrix]

You all are crazy.

I'll try and do this point by point:

I'd LOVE to see you point to some website hosting sales figures and the like for system sales in the US thats been recently updated as I've seen none.

As far as the last bit of news I've seen on this XBox is still ahead of GC world wide since its ahead in all territories except Japan and while Japans sales for the GC are leagues ahead of XBox its still rather small compared to the numbers sold in the US alone. If you can show me otherwise, by all means please do.

What I CAN talk about is how 3rd party games have not done well on the Cube in the past.

The RE remake sold a million copies world wide on GC huh? Not too shabby, if it wasn't Resident Evil. Don't give me crap about it being the same game as the first because its not. They kept the story and re-did the entire game. Difficulty, puzzels, graphics, sound, everything.

Any Resident Evil game on PSX sold millions, in a single territory! And you wanna talk about the GC making Capcom money and the PS2/XBox falling short?

Why was the designer of the RE remake out and out BITCHING in Japan about the game not selling what they wanted it to, how Sony's making PS2's break on purpose to inflate sales, Kingdom Hearts outsold the RE remake by some large amount, etc.

The GC does that to Capcom and their biggest sellers have been games like Devil May Cry and its sequel on PS2. The PS2 games are what makes Capcom the most money!

I also think you should read <a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/interviews/archives/00000002.htm" target="_blank">this</a> recent interview with a Capcom VP from E3. He talks about bringing fighting games to home consoles and what kind of decisions Capcom makes when it decides which system to bring these games to. He talks about how XBox of all consoles is the preferred one for putting the ports on because of Live, but they also want to put out PS2 versions because of the # of consoles they have out there.

Next there's this myth that people don't want 2D fighters anymore. Thats BULLSHIT and you know it.

If there was no market for 2D fighters, why did Capcom port CvS2 to PS2, then GC, and finnally to XBox? Ports cost money you know and they wouldn't spend money if they weren't sure they'd make more money back on it. If CvS2 didn't sell well on PS2 then it stands to reason that they wouldn't have ported it months later on GC and then even later on XBox.

Same goes for MvC2, it was on DC first in the US, then PS2 and now there's a third port on XBox! The game HAS to have sold well for them to port it to so many consoles.

I mean I already linked to the Capcom VP interview from E3, they're putting out more 2D fighters and its coming to the US on XBox and PS2. People BUY these games. Why else would Sammy risk putting out GGX on PS2? They didn't bring over the DC version, why PS2?

Cause PS2 versions sell better than the rest. And BTW, if GGX came out in the US for PS2 and by your logic no Americans buy 2D fighters, then why the hell did Sammy bring GGX2 over to the USA?

Because it sells, thats why.

You should rephrase your statement, most Americans won't buy Neo-Geo 2D fighters because lets face it: the graphics suck. But maybe I'm wrong and they'll buy a Neo port when it actually isn't a piece of shit port that plays like ass (as all the PSX ports were). Maybe if they put a port out on a mainstream system thats close to the original and plays well then people will buy it.

The point is that Americans DO buy 2D fighters, but they want ones that look good like MvC2, CvS2, and GGX2.

And people wonder why I think Playmore should move to new hardware for their games... oh_no

 

[Lou Gojira]

You should rephrase your statement, most Americans won't buy Neo-Geo 2D fighters because lets face it: the graphics suck.

As if this wasn't bad enough, you go on to say:

The point is that Americans DO buy 2D fighters, but they want ones that look good like MvC2, CvS2, and GGX2.

You're telling me that Americans are buying these games because they "look better" than Neo Geo fighters?

GTFOH!!!

Since when has mainstream Americana developed any real taste of their own?! You think people are choosing things based on quality? If that was the case, why in hell do bands like Limp Bizkit sell albums? Why do movies like Star Wars episode 1 rake in millions? It's all in marketing Bro, pure and simple. Stick it under somebody's nose long enough, they begin to think it's for them.

Hendrix, I respect you a lot man. But I have to tell you, saying the Neo Geo's graphics look like shit compared to that bland jiggly paper-doll crap that supposedly "redefines" 2D is cause to call the paddy wagon you. What size straight jacket you take? wink

 

[JHendrix]

Lou Gojira:

You should rephrase your statement, most Americans won't buy Neo-Geo 2D fighters because lets face it: the graphics suck.

As if this wasn't bad enough, you go on to say:

The point is that Americans DO buy 2D fighters, but they want ones that look good like MvC2, CvS2, and GGX2.

You're telling me that Americans are buying these games because they "look better" than Neo Geo fighters?

GTFOH!!!

Since when has mainstream Americana developed any real taste of their own?! You think people are choosing things based on quality? If that was the case, why in hell do bands like Limp Bizkit sell albums? Why do movies like Star Wars episode 1 rake in millions? It's all in marketing Bro, pure and simple. Stick it under somebody's nose long enough, they begin to think it's for them.

Hendrix, I respect you a lot man. But I have to tell you, saying the Neo Geo's graphics look like shit compared to that bland jiggly paper-doll crap that supposedly "redefines" 2D is cause to call the paddy wagon you. What size straight jacket you take? wink

No offense taken, nice to debate this stuff with someone who puts some thought behind these things.

Marketing sold games like MvC2, CvS2, GGX, and GGX2?

What kind of marketing did you see for them, cause I sure as hell saw little to NOTHING for them save for some simple magazine adds they put up in gaming rags like EGM and Gamepro.

I don't call that a marketing push, thats for damn sure.

2D fighting fans in the US wanted a game and they found them. They buy the ports of these games released on current/popular mainstream systems.

Also lets stop diluding ourselves here, the only people who play Neo-Geo games for the graphics anymore are people who are nostalgic for the 16bit days when the Neo was king.

I play my Neo for the great games it has, and while I do enjoy the grahpics, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I thought they were "inferior" to the graphics of other games.

Neo-Geo games stopped being graphically superior when Capcom started making the VS. games on CPS2. In Marvel vs. Capcom (the first one) Wolverine or Venom have more animation than anyone in MOTW or AOF3.

There I said it.

Stuff like the Naomi and CPS3 further cemented things w/ SF3:TS and GGX.

Higher resolutions, tons of detail, lots of animations, awesome effects = far superior graphics.

Just because games are 2D doesn't mean they have to look 16bit. I'd hardly call a game like GGX2 or SF3 to have characters that look like a "bland jiggly paper-doll".

Now I'm sure I'll take flack for saying that as I always do, I'm on a BBS filled with people who are fanboys of a 16bit system and there are hundreds of posts talking about how they hate modern/mainstream graphics. Hell this is the first place I ever came to that had people who hated Sony or thought of the "mainstream" as something thats inherantly bad.

Still I'd like to think that new SNK ports would sell to the US market on a decent level. They don't look anywhere near as nice as the new stuff does, but they have one thing that keeps me playing: the gameplay. I don't know how well they sold on the DC, but I'd like to think those sales would be amplified quite a bit when you have the installed base of the PS2 and an audience of 2D fighting fans who have been starving in recent years (since Capcom was on a 2 year hiatus from 2D fighting, and SNK games have been limited to the Neo or import only DC games).

Who knows, with the introduction of the KOF2k and 2k1 pack for PS2, if its for the right price I think they'll move well enough - at least I hope so.

Still I seriously don't think you can attribute the sucess of games like CvS2, MvC2, and GGX2 to marketing rather than the large gaming public buying 2D fighters that look better than the SNK competition. In my opinion the market has chosen the direction for 2D fighting and Playmore/SNK should move in that direction to survive.