Why haven't any of you doll fuckers started a Game of Thrones topic?

[HDRchampion]

TBH I don't really understand Tyrion's stance on Dany. He basically says that Dany did horrible things to horrible people who deserved those things, and therefore she was bad the whole time. I don't agree with that. The slavers and whatnot deserved to be killed eye-for-an-eye style. It may make Dany ruthless but not evil. She never murdered an innocent person. She clearly crossed the line at King's Landing and she should've paid the price for that (IMO, Arya should've added her to her list at the end of the penultimate episode), but that was the first time she was bold-faced wrong.

First time but damn she killed thousands of people...There is no do-over after that. Tyrion believed in her so much, even betraying Varys. She murder women & children without warrant, you cant forgive that. Then she talked about wanting to break the wheel & only she knows what's right. I agree with Tyrion that she would have done anything to make her destiny of building a better world...Bitch had to go.

 

[Taiso]

Dany was always a conventional tyrant.

Every tyrant believes they are doing 'what's best'.

She was just another spoke in the wheel, too vengeful and righteous. Even if she was well meaning, it doesn't matter.

The theme of the Iron Throne is that chalking it up to the world being the way it is just feeds into the system.

Also, I called it again.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-just-set-a-very-peculiar-winds-of-wi-1834953464

 

[evil wasabi]

Dany was always a conventional tyrant.

Every tyrant believes they are doing 'what's best'.

She was just another spoke in the wheel, too vengeful and righteous. Even if she was well meaning, it doesn't matter.

The theme of the Iron Throne is that chalking it up to the world being the way it is just feeds into the system.

Also, I called it again.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-just-set-a-very-peculiar-winds-of-wi-1834953464

1) Westeros is in the USA, and New Jersey is Horn Hill, which totally makes sense to me. Glad we sorted that out.
2) Did Martin visit NZ before or after the filming of LOTR?
3) Saying he would allow them to imprison him in White Island is like Bran's reverse psychology that he didn't want the throne.

 

[smokehouse]

TBH I don't really understand Tyrion's stance on Dany. He basically says that Dany did horrible things to horrible people who deserved those things, and therefore she was bad the whole time. I don't agree with that. The slavers and whatnot deserved to be killed eye-for-an-eye style. It may make Dany ruthless but not evil. She never murdered an innocent person. She clearly crossed the line at King's Landing and she should've paid the price for that (IMO, Arya should've added her to her list at the end of the penultimate episode), but that was the first time she was bold-faced wrong.

I took it differently.

I think Tyrion was stating that they all had a hand in it getting to the climax. Every time Dany would mercilessly slaughter "bad people", she would be applauded for it. No one accused her of being unfair or overly harsh. Because of this, her internal sense of being righteous grew. Early on, she did do horrid things to horrid people, but soon that began to skew. I personally feel this first happened with the burning of the Tarly's...this was the first time you could tell her council didn't agree with her harsh actions but said nothing. Her cold delivery to Samwell was also foreshadowing.

All of that positive reinforcement as she killed over and over again led her to the point where she thought os herself as a messenger and bringer of peace. Her black/white view of "join me or die" finally hit its' peak with the pointless slaughter of King's Landing.

Tyrion said she was out of control...and without directly stating it, said Dany needed to die...but he excepted some of the guilt of what she had become.

 

[evil wasabi]

I took it differently.

I think Tyrion was stating that they all had a hand in it getting to the climax. Every time Dany would mercilessly slaughter "bad people", she would be applauded for it. No one accused her of being unfair or overly harsh. Because of this, her internal sense of being righteous grew. Early on, she did do horrid things to horrid people, but soon that began to skew. I personally feel this first happened with the burning of the Tarly's...this was the first time you could tell her council didn't agree with her harsh actions but said nothing. Her cold delivery to Samwell was also foreshadowing.

All of that positive reinforcement as she killed over and over again led her to the point where she thought os herself as a messenger and bringer of peace. Her black/white view of "join me or die" finally hit its' peak with the pointless slaughter of King's Landing.

Tyrion said she was out of control...and without directly stating it, said Dany needed to die...but he excepted some of the guilt of what she had become.

Pretty much. This was foreshadowed when Tyrion told her that she freed Mereen, Astapoor, and Yunkai, and could just rule those people, and Dany was like "pfft, fuck that shit." She was never going to rule people. Missandei and Greyworm deserved worse for enabling her incestuous ass.

 

[SML]

This is like wishing Jesus would Hadoken the entire Roman Empire and the Pharisees all at once after coming back to life.

I'm pretty sure the only thing I've read by Martin was a story out of an old issue of OMNI about an inquisitor being sent by the reptilian space pope to put down some fan fiction about Jesus riding dragons.

 

[smokehouse]

Pretty much. This was foreshadowed when Tyrion told her that she freed Mereen, Astapoor, and Yunkai, and could just rule those people, and Dany was like "pfft, fuck that shit." She was never going to rule people. Missandei and Greyworm deserved worse for enabling her incestuous ass.

Exactly. Also, if she really gave a shit about the "rightful ruler of the 7 kingdoms", she would have bent the knee the second she found out that Jon was the rightful heir...which she didn't.

Her decent was long coming. I'll admit that Season 8 didn't do things any favors, but it wasn't like it came out of nowhere.

 

[norton9478]

Martin wrote a shit ton in those old Sci-Fi mags. I have a bunch of copies of "Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction" from the early 80's and his name is on the cover of about half of them.

 

[LoneSage]

I personally feel this first happened with the burning of the Tarly's...this was the first time you could tell her council didn't agree with her harsh actions but said nothing.

I think this is a case of applying modern morals to a medieval society. I think she acted appropriately - have the generals surrender or die. The grunts had the right idea, but the dumbass father was seemingly OK with his bloodline dying (I guess Sam and Dickon's young sister became the head of House Tarly afterwards, but a guy like Randyll Tarly...I don't think he'd like that idea).

Just a random thought, but the way romance bloomed between Dany and Jon always felt so artificial. Didn't hold a candle to Jon and Ygritte. Which goes without saying, their chemistry was so great together they even married in real life.

 

[smokehouse]

I think this is a case of applying modern morals to a medieval society. I think she acted appropriately - have the generals surrender or die. The grunts had the right idea, but the dumbass father was seemingly OK with his bloodline dying (I guess Sam and Dickon's young sister became the head of House Tarly afterwards, but a guy like Randyll Tarly...I don't think he'd like that idea).

Just a random thought, but the way romance bloomed between Dany and Jon always felt so artificial. Didn't hold a candle to Jon and Ygritte. Which goes without saying, their chemistry was so great together they even married in real life.

The Jon/Dany romance definitely felt rushed, I think everything in Seasons 7 and 8 did. Little of it was unbelievable, just rushed. If proper time and development had been applied to it, I feel the romance would have been fine.

Shit storytelling is often the issue. People have a decent ending, but are too impatient to get there properly. I know it's completely off topic, but the same thing happened to Anakin Skywalker. One minute a Jedi, the other slaughtering children. He definitely had it in him, but to make the leap that far and that fast was just shit storytelling.

 

[evil wasabi]

Can't stress enough the despair of watching GoT end like a Marvel superhero movie.

 

[ballzdeepx]

Tyrion was playing both sides all along to a certain extent. If he truly didn't want the city and the people to be destroyed, he could have let Dany/Jon know there was a way up into the keep, and that a small group of elites could have easily taken out Cersei. He obviously didn't because Jamie was using it to get her out, so Tyrion is just as much to blame for everyone's death as Sansa. Dany was spot on that he betrayed her, and how many lives were lost because of that. Tyrion put her in that position, and Jon fueled the paranoia by telling his sisters who he was (hell of a lot of good that did)

 

[dgame]

So the Dothraki Bloodriders let Jon live after that?
No way.

 

[evil wasabi]

So the Dothraki Bloodriders let Jon live after that?
No way.

This is how you become a Khal. Kill the current Khal/Khaleesi. Cut their hair. Take their horse.

 

[wyo]

Exactly. Also, if she really gave a shit about the "rightful ruler of the 7 kingdoms", she would have bent the knee the second she found out that Jon was the rightful heir...which she didn't.

Lol, good point...

 

[jro]

I took it differently.

I think Tyrion was stating that they all had a hand in it getting to the climax. Every time Dany would mercilessly slaughter "bad people", she would be applauded for it. No one accused her of being unfair or overly harsh. Because of this, her internal sense of being righteous grew. Early on, she did do horrid things to horrid people, but soon that began to skew. I personally feel this first happened with the burning of the Tarly's...this was the first time you could tell her council didn't agree with her harsh actions but said nothing. Her cold delivery to Samwell was also foreshadowing.

All of that positive reinforcement as she killed over and over again led her to the point where she thought os herself as a messenger and bringer of peace. Her black/white view of "join me or die" finally hit its' peak with the pointless slaughter of King's Landing.

Tyrion said she was out of control...and without directly stating it, said Dany needed to die...but he excepted some of the guilt of what she had become.

And he was also insinuating that they'd gotten to the point where Dany had given herself the unquestioned authority to determine if someone or a group was "evil" whether or not that was actually the case, and that she was clearly going to do so to very bad effect.

 

[LoneSage]

To be a fly on the wall at the HBO exec meetings recently. Someone fucked up massively letting D&D fuck around for two years. Can't imagine how much potential money was lost because of how hard D&D fucked up season 8. Millions? Definitely.

Jon's role this year:

I DUN WAN IT

YER MAH QUEEN

And then a little stabby action

 

[smokehouse]

To be a fly on the wall at the HBO exec meetings recently. Someone fucked up massively letting D&D fuck around for two years. Can't imagine how much potential money was lost because of how hard D&D fucked up season 8. Millions? Definitely.

Jon's role this year:

I DUN WAN IT

YER MAH QUEEN

And then a little stabby action

Pretty much...his role was crap, Tyrion's role was crap, most developed character's roles were crap. Even Cersei had few scenes and little content.

It's weird when you really think of it...we're talking about 6 episodes that were what, 1hr, 20min each? That's nearly 8hrs of content and when you look back at it, not much really happened. How in the hell do you do that with over 7 hrs?

 

[LoneSage]

Pretty much...his role was crap, Tyrion's role was crap, most developed character's roles were crap. Even Cersei had few scenes and little content.

It's weird when you really think of it...we're talking about 6 episodes that were what, 1hr, 20min each? That's nearly 8hrs of content and when you look back at it, not much really happened. How in the hell do you do that with over 7 hrs?

In seasons 1 through 4, characters drove the story while the wars fought were a consequence.

In recent seasons, big Hollywood battles drove the story while characters were largely forgotten.

How did characters progress the plot in season?

Cersei drinking and looking out the window.

Jon repeating "I DUN WANNIT".

Sansa being a catty bitch.

Tyrion giving enough terrible advice that he eventually drives his queen to madness, only to become another Hand to some cripple.

Bran, whose entire arc was apparently just...wait it out until...keep waiting...OK right here's a chance to be king.

Don't get me started on Arya "I know a killer when I see one" Stark like bitch you're a killer too, jesus fuck. AHHHHHhhhhhh. wasabi says relax. OK.

 

[smokehouse]

In seasons 1 through 4, characters drove the story while the wars fought were a consequence.

In recent seasons, big Hollywood battles drove the story while characters were largely forgotten.

How did characters progress the plot in season?

Cersei drinking and looking out the window.

Jon repeating "I DUN WANNIT".

Sansa being a catty bitch.

Tyrion giving enough terrible advice that he eventually drives his queen to madness, only to become another Hand to some cripple.

Bran, whose entire arc was apparently just...wait it out until...keep waiting...OK right here's a chance to be king.

Don't get me started on Arya "I know a killer when I see one" Stark like bitch you're a killer too, jesus fuck. AHHHHHhhhhhh. wasabi says relax. OK.

I agree 100%.

People gripe about the individual endings...and honestly, I don't really mind any of them. The recent path the show took to get to those endings was the horrid part.

 

[GutsDozer]

Super rushed and craptastic. The most valid complaint is I waited 8 fucking years to see who sat on the iron throne and the answer is nobody! It's fucking melted! Also lets kill 2 central characters i the most nonchalant bullcrap way possible. Lets also not forget "I can't be lord of Winterfell, I'm the fucking useless thre eyed fucking raven." Now its like "Why do you think I came all this way" Fooooock.

 

[F4U57]

The show’s over lads. Enough’s enough. Move along.

 

[evil wasabi]

In seasons 1 through 4, characters drove the story while the wars fought were a consequence.

In recent seasons, big Hollywood battles drove the story while characters were largely forgotten.

How did characters progress the plot in season?

Cersei drinking and looking out the window.

Jon repeating "I DUN WANNIT".

Sansa being a catty bitch.

Tyrion giving enough terrible advice that he eventually drives his queen to madness, only to become another Hand to some cripple.

Bran, whose entire arc was apparently just...wait it out until...keep waiting...OK right here's a chance to be king.

Don't get me started on Arya "I know a killer when I see one" Stark like bitch you're a killer too, jesus fuck. AHHHHHhhhhhh. wasabi says relax. OK.

We need to start GOTAnonymous, where former fans can get together and vent.

 

[ggallegos1]

We need to start GOTAnonymous, where former fans can get together and vent.

Already exists.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/05/17/en...ing-trnd/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[Taiso]

The show’s over lads. Enough’s enough. Move along.

Seems like there is enough interest in this show to warrant further discussion from a number of us but we'll be sure to join you in whatever threads you're active in soon enough.