Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

joe8

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I didn't mind this movie, it's honestly in the same ballpark of any of the previous Star Wars films but my main gripe with Star Wars in general is this:

You never really feel that the jedi will lose, there's no fear, no real danger. This story is romantic as hell no matter how enormous the odds aren't stacked in the jedi's favour. Star Trek is a far better story.

Take this for an example in the latest film, this mass force is essentially grounded without guidance by these comms towers, this 'new order' has a stupid weakness such as this!? It's unbelievable.
Star Wars is made for children, whereas Star Trek is made for an audience of teenagers and adults.
The SW films, you always knew that the Jedi would beat the Sith, in the end. They were always supposed to be simple movies in the style of the old movies they were inspired by.
 
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theMot

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Take this for an example in the latest film, this mass force is essentially grounded without guidance by these comms towers, this 'new order' has a stupid weakness such as this!? It's unbelievable.

You mean the First Order? First order rose from the ashes of the Empire.

New order rose from the ashes of Joy Division.
 

FilthyRear

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It was just meh - not great, not terrible, just meh.

The CGI for that 10-second scene with a young Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill was on point, tho.
 

SouthtownKid

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I honestly was never a fan of New Order. They have one maybe two songs I don't dislike. Their sound was fine but their lyrics were bleh.
 

theMot

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I honestly was never a fan of New Order. They have one maybe two songs I don't dislike. Their sound was fine but their lyrics were bleh.

Same but Joy Division, especially Closer is gold.
 

fake

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It was just meh - not great, not terrible, just meh.

The CGI for that 10-second scene with a young Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill was on point, tho.

I actually didn't like that. My immediate thought was "didn't they learn their lesson from Tarkin / Young Leia before?"

Also, I don't know how I feel about Leia being a Jedi warrior. It just doesn't really fit her disposition, IMO. I thought her bounty hunter disguise in Jedi was awesome. She should have expanded to something in that vein.
 

SML

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My conclusions on the sequel trilogy aren't going to be earthshaking:

They really shouldn't have gone into the series without a plan. Jesus.

TFA was extremely polished and derivative. It was great the first time through but ultimately a little too mechanical. Hard to believe it, but Rey being offered a pile of ration packs will turn out to be one of the most emotionally involving moments in the whole series. It feels like Star Wars, but it will need to do more than that to feel necessary.

TLJ is very, very, *very* sloppy, BUT... for Chrissakes, it's the only entry with the ambition to try to mean something, and they got Luke right. They got Luke right. He's not a Jedi master. In a sense, he's becoming more than that. "Mastery" is a concept which no longer fits his understanding of the Force. The theme (this movie *has those*) of transcending paradigms is also reflected in Rey's frustrated search for her origins, and her learning to move past it, and Kylo's efforts, and ultimate failure, to "kill the past." Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work as either the second act or the conclusion of the story, especially since Finn, Poe, and Rose's B plot was such a mess. The story needs closure, but it's hard to see where it can go after this.

RoS decided, instead, to make a full retreat. It's a fever dream where space and time are meaningless. The "ticking clock" element makes the search for the thing that will show the way to the thing that will show the way to the planet even less plausible than it would otherwise be. The same goes for Palpatine's weird deal with Kylo Ren. That factor is literally just there so the characters will never stop moving until they're in their places for RoTJ only bigger. Rey's lineage was meaningless in TLJ and now it's worse than meaningless, it's forced and arbitrary. People might not have liked the idea of killing the past, but the reverse of that turned out to be nostalgia smothering the franchise.

The Mandolorian was a ton of fun, though it left everything a lot more open than I would have liked. I'm fine with the "it's sort of like X from the movies, but not" approach to the characters. IG-88 was a prop with intriguing flavor text, and IG-11's characterization felt like they did a good job of creating an individual who still had characteristics that would be general to IG units.

I hope it has a great second season, and maybe even a third, and then knows when to stop.
 
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wataru330

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5f081625b5f579315c7b2dc25aa5d40c.jpg
 

SML

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I hope it has a great second season, and maybe even a third, and then knows when to stop.

Speaking of knowing when to stop, I don't!

Let's go back to Luke and how good, rather than bad, he is in TLJ.

To start with, I'm still not sure what people *wanted* Luke to be. Was he supposed to be the Obi Wan or Yoda of this trilogy?

If so, why? We've already had an Obi Wan and a Yoda.

If so, how? In RoTJ Luke nearly falls twice within the same hour, first trying to strike down the Emperor in anger, and then tard raging on Darth Vader. If the Emperor hadn't started cackling about how awesome it was that Luke was about to irrevocably fall to the dark side Luke might not have decided that he'd rather not do that after all and, on second thought, he's a Jedi.

I always found that claim to be a bit of a stretch. *Aspirational,* perhaps. Sure, Yoda has told Luke that his training is complete, and that confronting Vader is his final test, but if he passed that test it was a C- at best. What Luke's really saying at that point, though it wouldn't have worked as a line, is "I'm not a Sith, and my father doesn't have to be a Sith either."

In the Universe of the Original Trilogy, that distinction would have been clear enough, even to non force-sensitive characters. Keep in mind that even though Luke has impressive talent using the force at the beginning of RoTJ, Bib Fortuna finds the idea of Luke being a Jedi laughable. To anyone with memory of the Jedi, Luke appears to be a pretender in hero's armor.

But Luke has decided what he wants to be, and he knows what he wants his father to be, and this creepy mummy man has nothing to offer or threaten him with that can make him change his mind. Stick it up your raisin ass, pal. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me.

That doesn't qualify him to start a new Jedi order. He wasn't asked to do that anyway. He was asked to pass on what he had learned.

What happened between RoTJ and TFA? Well, it's hard to say, but something got fucked. He talked to Obi Wan and Yoda a bit more, he's skimmed the ancient Jedi texts, and it turns out there's some weird rules about celibacy and denial of emotions, even though he's been searching and/or trusting his feelings a lot up to this point.

Well, he'll do his best...

So now his students, including his nephew, are now all dead or turned.

Maybe he needs to rethink some things. Maybe he wasn't ready to tackle this. Maybe he was being reckless and selfish. ("I'm endangering the mission. I shouldn't have come.")

Maybe he's not the only one with a problem, though. How long has this conflict between the Jedi and Sith been going on? A thousand generations? Are those Storm Troopers Yoda is commanding in those old recordings?

So Luke's had a lot to think about. He's got a lot of regrets and he's not the naïve farm boy he was before. He sees his attempt to set himself up as a Jedi master as an act of hubris, and he sees that same hubris reflected in Obi Wan's attempt to train Anakin, and back and back until it encompasses the entire Jedi order.

He still studies the ways of the force, but it's the life energy that binds the Galaxy together. How can anyone call himself the master of that? How can anyone ever be fully initiated into those mysteries?

Which is all well and good, but he's overcompensating. His guilt over his failure has overwhelmed him and he doesn't recognize that retreating from the universe and refusing to act is also selfish. He doesn't need to be a Jedi *master* in order to *serve* good. He needs to let go of the past in order to move forward, but he can't do it. The tree full of unread Jedi texts is his reflection, just as the cave was his reflection in TESB. After it burns, never mind if the texts were actually in there at the time, he's able to take those final steps forward.

He acts to save his friends. He encounters his former pupil, who, despite his talk about killing the past, is still consumed and compelled by it. He can kill his parents, or Snoke, or Luke. He can destroy the Falcon, the First Order, or The Resistance, but it isn't going to solve his problem, though he can't see that. Luke's last words to Kylo suggest that, as lost as Kylo is, Luke recognizes something of his own struggle in Kylo's, as well as the potential for Kylo, or Ben, to eventually find his way through it. But bitch has a *long* way to go. "See you around, Kid."

The test is over. He's passed. He opens his eyes and becomes one with the force.

There's the end of your Skywalker Saga.
 
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lithy

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All well and good, but the second Luke was played for laughs (initially by tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder and later with the force grass) they messed it up and any weight of Luke and his journey in between ROTJ and TLJ was no longer an issue. He was just a crotchety scrooge with Rey pestering him into training her and him suddenly deciding to do it for...plot reasons.

TLJ may have had ideas while the others didn't but you get very few points from me for trying and in the end, TFA is infinitely more watchable as forgettable entertainment (although it does get increasingly grating on repeat viewings). TLJ was not fun to watch the first time and is borderline painful on repeat viewings.
 

DevilRedeemed

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SML, salutations from the deep, deep south.
What you write resonates with me and I aprove of the last film being described as a fever dream.
 
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SML

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1. Force grass is funny.

2. It's really weird to assume that young Anakin Skywalker is responsible for every aspect of Threepio's programming, right down to his personality. His memory banks have been wiped. As a protocol droid, he's probably able to update his own programming. Protocols change. Did child Anakin also explicitly program Threepio not to impersonate deities?

3. A page ago, Lonesage wrote "strutting like Travolta fingerbanging every pretty girl on the street."

(P.S. I only watched TFA twice and I haven't watched the other two outside of once at the theater, so I'm probably heavily exaggerating/downplaying elements in my memory.)
 

lithy

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1. Force grass is funny.

2. It's really weird to assume that young Anakin Skywalker is responsible for every aspect of Threepio's programming, right down to his personality. His memory banks have been wiped. As a protocol droid, he's probably able to update his own programming. Protocols change. Did child Anakin also explicitly program Threepio not to impersonate deities?

3. A page ago, Lonesage wrote "strutting like Travolta fingerbanging every pretty girl on the street."

(P.S. I only watched TFA twice and I haven't watched the other two outside of once at the theater, so I'm probably heavily exaggerating/downplaying elements in my memory.)

1. Next you're going to tell me "Can you hear me now?" is funny!

2. If we're backtracking to that topic, Anakin building C-3PO is completely stupid maybe stupider than some but not all plot elements of TLJ. First and foremost because we had already seen several identical protocol droids in universe. So we have to believe that either, Anakin was such a skilled builder that he created from scratch a perfect recreation of an already standardized droid form or he just built some sort of protocol droid in a box in which case we have to ask how a slave kid got his hands on such a kit anyway. I assume those droids are valuable since the Jawas are willing to fence them, so certainly Watto wouldn't have let him have it.

3. [REDACTED]
 

SML

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SML, salutations from the deep, deep south.
What you write resonates with me and I aprove of the last film being described as a fever dream.

I appreciate it, man. I'm not crazy about the movie as a whole but Luke Skywalker means something to me and I appreciated the way TLJ handled him. I also appreciate that not everyone felt that way.

I hope we can all get to a point where we can talk about what we like or don't like without basing it mainly on whatever agenda we perceive the work or fans or critics as having.

I was joking about it earlier but the unironic invocation of "SJWs" and "neckbeards" is so depressing and tiresome. It feels like we're all trapped in a conversation that pushes everything else aside. We can't talk about Star Wars. There's only one conversation and it has to do with whether or not Holdo has Tumblr hair or whether or not Rose is a victim of erasure. I'm not even saying there isn't room for those conversations, but does *everything* have to be subsumed into the culture war?
 

NeoSneth

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Speaking of knowing when to stop, I don't!

Let's go back to Luke and how good, rather than bad, he is in TLJ.

To start with, I'm still not sure what people *wanted* Luke to be. Was he supposed to be the Obi Wan or Yoda of this trilogy?
....

I think we expected something more than an old milk-drinking curmudgeon. The only force power being astral projection.
You are referencing Luke from the original movies, but SW fans had 3 decades of extended universe with Luke. And it was damn good. There was no way to meet any expectations with the version we got in LTJ
 

SML

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Does this now count as a prophecy?
 

Taiso

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I think we expected something more than an old milk-drinking curmudgeon. The only force power being astral projection.
You are referencing Luke from the original movies, but SW fans had 3 decades of extended universe with Luke. And it was damn good. There was no way to meet any expectations with the version we got in LTJ

This is why deconstructing Luke was the dumbest thing they could have done. Even if you discard all that EU canon, nearly 40 years of pop cultural cache can't be waved away by metatextual examinations of what legends truly are. Luke, and Star Wars, are not good fits for that. Luke's story was done. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, this trilogy was absolutely worthless and vapid in the end. All.the discussions, all the theorycrafting, all the diatribes and discourses and hot takes and we're left with a veritable shit sandwich with two stale pieces of bread and a polished turd in the middle. They don't feel like a continuation of the story.

All of this was a waste of time.

TRoS was an honest effort but it was like watching Abrams try to swim with an anchor chained around his legs. An impossible task.

People are now asking for the 'J.J. cut.

God, no.

It's over. Done and dusted and better off having not existed.

They have a good thing with The Mandalorian. This is the Way.
 
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smokey

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I actually liked the way Luke turned out. I would have loved to a semi jedi order established not as well organised or cold as the prequel order but still some seeds of a new order ,it would have made for more interesting plots.
What I really hated about this triology are the cheap plot stories: The Force Awakens with the map. Why does luke leave a map in the first place,if he doens't want to be found? It's so cheap. I also hate the fact that they blowup Coruscant . Way to stop a lot of interesting stories from possibly happening.
TLJ: The codebreaker: why is this shit nessecary ? Only one person can break it. It would have been much cooler if they would have told their plan to the Admiral. Assemble a strike team. Have some adventures on snoke ship and then still fail in the same way.

In the rise of skywalker: I hate the fact that the Empire/sith have an endless budget but still manage to fuck up each time. Also the ending doesn't make any sense. Did that savy Darth Sidious end up destrouing himself?
 

SML

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Done and dusted and better off having not existed.

They have a good thing with The Mandalorian. This is the Way.

Agree with all of this.

Everything outside of the unspecialized OT is fan fiction (some of it *quite good* fan fiction, mind) as far as I'm concerned.
 

DevilRedeemed

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This is why deconstructing Luke was the dumbest thing they could have done. Even if you discard all that EU canon, nearly 40 years of pop cultural cache can't be waved away by metatextual examinations of what legends truly are. Luke, and Star Wars, are not good fits for that. Luke's story was done. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, this trilogy was absolutely worthless and vapid in the end. All.the discussions, all the theorycrafting, all the diatribes and discourses and hot takes and we're left with a veritable shit sandwich with two stale pieces of bread and a polished turd in the middle. They don't feel like a continuation of the story.

All of this was a waste of time.

TRoS was an honest effort but it was like watching Abrams try to swim with an anchor chained around his legs. An impossible task.

People are now asking for the 'J.J. cut.

God, no.

It's over. Done and dusted and better off having not existed.

They have a good thing with The Mandalorian. This is the Way.

Pointless films for pointless times in pop culture. I'm exaggerating of course, but these films speak volumes about where we are at now, in so many ways
- and what and how the masses consume and are conducted to consume (values, aesthetics, information, product).
The very existence of another trilogy and how and by whom it was created speaks more about present day business practice than it does earnest development of the afore finalised sextology
 

LoneSage

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I'm a little surprised no one's talked about Rey. She's supposed to be the hero of this trilogy but guess she turned out completely flat and boring.
 

theMot

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I saw it and enjoyed it. Probably liked it as much as 7 which is quite a bit.

Anyone who disagrees with me can get fucked.
 
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